From owner-freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Feb 6 14:51:57 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ECCE7409 for ; Thu, 6 Feb 2014 14:51:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mx.waitman.net (mx.waitman.net [136.0.16.173]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBE7B1DAB for ; Thu, 6 Feb 2014 14:51:56 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mx.waitman.net (Postfix, from userid 2) id 8C9A1436A6; Wed, 5 Feb 2014 22:59:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from 67.170.221.223 by mx.waitman.net with HTTP; Wed, 5 Feb 2014 22:59:02 -0800 Message-ID: <09c1b0fdb964d9b8f44542b08d868028.squirrel@mx.waitman.net> In-Reply-To: <201402061228.s16CRo02023097@fire.js.berklix.net> References: <201402061228.s16CRo02023097@fire.js.berklix.net> Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2014 22:59:02 -0800 Subject: Re: [FreeBSD-Ports-Announce] Time to bid farewell to the old pkg_ tools From: "Waitman Gobble" To: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.5.2 [SVN] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list Reply-To: uzimac@da3m0n8t3r.com List-Id: Porting software to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2014 14:51:57 -0000 On Thu, February 6, 2014 4:27 am, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > Michel Talon wrote: > > > >>> ports/ is not just for package addicts. I never install packages, but >>> only build & install from ports/. sqlite junk obstructs /var/db/pkg >>> being accessed by find & grep to debug breaking ports = >> builds. >> >> As someone who has advocated the use of sqlite to replace the old = >> "database in the filesystem" >> several years before it has been implemented by the new package system, >> = >> i can only conclude, like Matthew that you are being absurd. >> > > Personal inuendo does not impress. > > > >> The old package system was total = >> crap, > > local.sqlite is also crap, breaks decades of accessibility by find & grep > & other text pipe / search tools. > > > >> incredibly slow and using system resources in absurd ways. Sqlite >> obstructs nothing, > > False. local.sqlite obstructs inspection by find & grep & text search > tools. > > >> you = have to spend a couple of minutes learning the basic SQL queries, >> which is no more difficult that learning = obtuse find and grep options. >> > > Package addicts were so myopic they ignored some people won't even > use packages, just /usr/ports & make. local.sqlite was immaturely shoved > in without documenting it, no "man 5 local.sqlite" no hook there for the > "couple of minutes learning" you assert, (no hook to believe > the "couple" you assert). > > That's a good point, having the sqlite structures documented would be nice. I'll research to see what already exists, if nothing I'll put together some documentation in the next few days. I normally build from source, however I'm currently 'on the road' and wanted to update a laptop which has not been touched in about one year. Updating to 11.0-CURRENT was no problem, however converting the system to pkgng then trying to 'pkg upgrade' all the packages caused some headaches for me.. in the end it was _much_ easier to wipe /usr/local and /var/db/pkg and install everything fresh using pkg. Perhaps 'sounds scary' but not really. User settings/configuration is mostly in ~/ ... Doing it that way went very smooth and very quick. Overall I prefer pkgng to the previous pkg system. And storing information in sqlite database seems smart to me. I think maybe sqlite is used with yellowdog, but i've not looked hard at the inner mechanics of that system. I see your point about grep, I suppose grep doesn't work so well with sqlite databases. # grep fun local.sqlite Binary file local.sqlite matches The most painful trouble I've had with (any) package systems: r) a major upgrade to libraries which are dependencies in (many) other packages, ie png. s) introducing foreign software: building custom/or self-written/or 'manual' software into the same space as the packaged software (ie, /usr/local). t) updating a machine which has been 'neglected' for and extended period. pkgng is the most 'intuitive' and uncomplicated package system i've seen, i'm happy that so much effort has gone into creating a great product. >> Moreover i have hard time believing one needs to dissect the package = >> system (beyond reading the=20 output of pkg info) to debug a port build. >> One surely needs some = >> > > ports/ is not just a plaything for package script addicts. Some use ports/ > to make & debug exclusively from sources. > > -- Waitman Gobble San Jose California USA +1.510-830-7975