From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Jun 4 07:58:42 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D39732EB59 for ; Thu, 4 Jun 2020 07:58:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) Received: from sonic313-22.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (sonic313-22.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com [77.238.179.189]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49cyp8592jz43hs for ; Thu, 4 Jun 2020 07:58:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) X-YMail-OSG: JUMVNbYVM1l6AW2.Kzfjqtyy683yqD_uGgjfYDimEoNQo2KnyPfjpCKTipjw_Y3 W4ONnV1W3WWA49kKkvUekTvenGkXP2.N5VC6iEEC7QYS4vqZMJnBbZ96y92FQwZpDEGs3hy_lGqR D8vaOLP2Bfrz5.nNyFIsy0eMq9hBTMnZlO8BjCKh1XXL6vcX5bJc2Ano4RwxK5p6NMn5UxzN0v2D RvsyRi4Z0Lsni2zxJ3Bg3kICHRkPnbW9ihsJ6DS_OFatRhVdI3fKMcXbOOAf728jGCxTs91kKB6P .zvDTYiTSuUCkUIbMsN9vMabm_tpgoUyhwCiMJeHPXw3TyFuxmn4DCfLWC4fDCAizwahOgaHkT2a sZJrsAk_nBpZuy.wNPaqnlVgR6gPmSTGEBU1i7FD2ZFoFe1Cxw13apVjV5O77o5PRgLSOnXIMHmf fFtMFFGuJVhytHqUB6Usha_zoNo9C2YZP6gm1NL2m5To0R.bh81z_vgj1AqXUNqhZSy6XlZLsoJ3 T5jibTwBfjRLi4bx.2Aj5dsb8rdK63GEYoaKe56liQpB9DPrHlux_j4I4YLkXaO50IhvDuvYFQrk s.x2W0ih8h_qPHQmPk6rwi860SkqFY6_JBsJGvEC177K0tEIyktOBP5RhDZtxiW.YmA5iu_CTrpE NSX_dLTUV_kjTTg1odiwDw5v4iEp_VVpge6aIiXUzFQR4vHJxsbh4veI.2G_BL.fzYGk4Ab4SrkU onXaz3E.b1mHFPC8h4g90Cy_i9g2GQR3OOFBWwug0XYVJgb65wTdbBDS.9MxPHC5h.SNTxlqQi7p Rthcgf9jfsySltKZEnKfEKWtKMBoWlbvyxKJlfoTlUpl4zpXaX_dSdIGiluiF_6LPL7Lw7jFViMA d8IMKO4jn0eL4smIAdXUVf1H9fTZz2elWwh4o5B6GAmDW9K730znE.aww0yPzbxQ7O4.LhafbPJG Zyobi6rweqnVAW_hTjsJRm1Lenkp53ZSxbHsx1HAc8.JiySqIpTeYm78.yjXONiJg2A1.jODp9wF YVvtwC1sMqlJLhWIHnr5BIGsJPTIlpBLewuNCnkccM0ZCEpnRiwuLDJrycw33DamO3lEaXEiQkET v_wRTpLjrtDeofAlL2rFokKl9hLCNHNdD1vChpPk_ybpuee51p1_yYXRu2SVI0fkCLfj3eQWT.8y CAecSzwQZQMI3beFWCL7t7Z4fId6zvaqFk9QGNaP9yvv2_Ta3jn_fFqxQHgVWVRsSS0ala0qRT2M teaS2e7hw1Z6MGr6N376Do6QJIRK0nmrzRsJ2E1TPueuP7ehHFRgN7qvGb56fJL3nbfsqIj_ZW29 OWw95JBU.HxdWKY_8.E0_O6dY.nFZHKkZSW.H6Y5B2q_ML84jLFsB7O7E_XAiQq.oYFSADwrphf. rWR9HfgOC24oGG5ABSw-- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic313.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 4 Jun 2020 07:58:38 +0000 Received: by smtp426.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 0e80e56174cda2608a69f53374d1efcf; Thu, 04 Jun 2020 07:58:35 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2020 09:58:38 +0200 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Cc: Polytropon Subject: Re: Minimal skills Message-ID: <20200604095838.20d6b074@archlinux> In-Reply-To: <20200604074134.89eb6518.freebsd@edvax.de> References: <20200604005859.ca438474.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200604020051.0c02472d.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200604074134.89eb6518.freebsd@edvax.de> X-Mailer: Claws Mail (linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49cyp8592jz43hs X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.42 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[rocketmail.com:s=s2048]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.02)[-1.019]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.02)[-1.017]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[rocketmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[77.238.179.189:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.90)[-0.898]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[rocketmail.com,reject]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:34010, ipnet:77.238.176.0/22, country:GB]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[77.238.179.189:from] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2020 07:58:42 -0000 On Thu, 4 Jun 2020 07:41:34 +0200, Polytropon wrote: >If you don't mind, I'd suggest to dedicate a workstation PC >or a laptop for FreeBSD, while having a second computer (or >a smartphone) for web access (documtnation, mailing lists, >or web forums). On Wed, 3 Jun 2020 18:27:40 -0700, David Christensen wrote: >For self-learning, the starting point is to obtain a working personal >computer (PC) and Internet access. I suggest a Windows or macOS >desktop or laptop computer [...] Do not make any dramatic changes to >the PC, and do not attempt to install FreeBSD or any other operating >system (e.g. "dual boot"). [...] >Install virtualization software on your PC (I suggest VirtualBox). >Create a virtual machine (VM). Install FreeBSD on the VM (see chapter >3 of AF3E). Don't worry if you make mistakes during installation -- >delete the virtual machine and start over. Once you have a working >FreeBSD VM, shut it down and take a snapshot. Hi, it's not easy to decide which of those two approaches is the better one. I would say it's better to install FreeBSD on bare metal. While the recommendation to use VirtualBox is very good, since it's the easiest to use virtual machine, I dislike this idea for two reasons. To learn how to maintain a computer, it's wise to learn the basics regarding hardware and software, so it's way better to avoid a virtual machine that fakes hardware and getting your hands dirty by touching real hardware. Btw. starting with a desktop tower PC and a screwdriver IMO is better, than starting with a laptop, since IMO you literally should get in touch with the hardware. I started with hardware modified C64 and Atari ST computers. In the beginning a friend helped me with the hardware. The Atari ST had a 80286 hardware emulator and was running DR DOS. I learned different levels of programming BASIC, PASCAL, Assembler, Turbo C++. Later I migrated to a Windows 98 and user-friendly Linux distro dual-boot PC, before I used FreeBSD and a user-centric (non-user-friendly) Linux distro. I do not program with programming languages anymore and I do not modify computer hardware using a soldering iron anymore. Nowadays I only write shell scripts and I only piece together ready-made computer modules. A desktop tower PC's motherboard has got slots to connect hardware cards, RAM etc. and shell scripts are quite powerful. It's good that I used programming languages and a soldering iron in the past, but not necessarily needed to maintain a modern computer. Btw. one of my few contributions to FLOSS communities is helping novices with Ubuntu Linux. My recommendation before starting with a BSD or not user-friendly Linux distro is to start with a user-friendly Linux distro. A dual-boot with e.g. Windows isn't necessarily required. Consider to use Ubuntu first. While for some domains I'm using an iPad, e.g. for drawing, the idea that a beginner should have a Smartphone or tablet computer is only useful to get information/help via Internet. A second PC or laptop would allow to download and e.g. burn software, something that might be even more helpful in some dead ends a greenhorn could experience. OTOH neighbours or friends might assist, if you need more than a Smartphone or tablet computer to fix an issue with your FreeBSD (or maybe Ubuntu ;) computer. Regards, Ralf