From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 31 14:12:03 2006 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63CBF16A4DE for ; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 14:12:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mwm-keyword-freebsdhackers2.e313df@mired.org) Received: from mired.org (vpn.mired.org [66.92.153.74]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7E4F543D99 for ; Mon, 31 Jul 2006 14:11:52 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from mwm-keyword-freebsdhackers2.e313df@mired.org) Received: (qmail 56087 invoked by uid 1001); 31 Jul 2006 14:11:51 -0000 Received: by bhuda.mired.org (tmda-sendmail, from uid 1001); Mon, 31 Jul 2006 10:11:49 -0400 (EDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <17614.4005.407223.621637@bhuda.mired.org> Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 10:11:49 -0400 To: Eric Anderson In-Reply-To: <44CE03D2.2050803@centtech.com> References: <200607271150.k6RBoM9p031745@lurza.secnetix.de> <44C8FB65.9020102@FreeBSD.org> <44CE03D2.2050803@centtech.com> X-Mailer: VM 7.17 under 21.4 (patch 19) "Constant Variable" XEmacs Lucid X-Primary-Address: mwm@mired.org X-face: "5Mnwy%?j>IIV\)A=):rjWL~NB2aH[}Yq8Z=u~vJ`"(,&SiLvbbz2W`; h9L,Yg`+vb1>RG% *h+%X^n0EZd>TM8_IB;a8F?(Fb"lw'IgCoyM.[Lg#r\ X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/1.0.3 (Seattle Slew) From: Mike Meyer Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Doug Barton Subject: Re: [PATCH] adding two new options to 'cp' X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 14:12:03 -0000 In <44CE03D2.2050803@centtech.com>, Eric Anderson typed: > The patch doesn't change any current behavior, nor should it be noticed > by anyone not looking for it. However, it is useful, and it does make > our cp work just like the GNU cp, which eases the migration path for > linux->FreeBSD users. Is emulating Linux behavior that good an idea? I mean, if I want Linux, I can download and install a copy. The joke about "Linux is for people who hate Windows; FreeBSD is for people who love Unix" is funny to me *because* it seems to capture the difference between the two systems so accurately. I like Unix/BSD because I feel like the developers respect the user, and are willing to let the user do pretty much anything they need to do, even if there's no obvious reason for them to want that. I detest Windows because the developers treat the the user like an idiot, and write software that does things the way they think the user should want to do them - and make it impossible to do things that the developers don't think users would ever need/want to do. Linux seems to have more of the latter attitude than the former. [And no, I don't think this patch has that attitude; I just don't think that "that's how linux does it" is a valid argument: freebsd isn't linux.] On a lighter note, if we want to ease the migration path for users from other systems, then we should clearly add software to provide a BSOD at random intervals to make Windows users more comfortable. > I suppose I'm just missing the reason *not* to commit such a simple and > useful set of options. Feature bloat. Or, more verbosely, this doesn't add any new functionality to the system, while adding things that we would rather minimize. If the functionality is all that useful, then people should have already created shell code to make this functionality easily available via the tools that already have it. If nobody needs this functionality often enough to have done that, is it something that we want to enshrine in compiled code? http://www.mired.org/consulting.html Independent Network/Unix/Perforce consultant, email for more information.