From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Apr 28 06:25:48 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D75092ADBB3 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 06:25:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.82.1d4c10003e3b797.7d32a96bc816cec82af2ee0e0d97673e@email-od.com) Received: from s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com (s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com [142.0.176.198]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49BBV415y2z4K2S for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 06:25:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.82.1d4c10003e3b797.7d32a96bc816cec82af2ee0e0d97673e@email-od.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=email-od.com;i=@email-od.com;s=dkim; c=relaxed/relaxed; q=dns/txt; t=1588055148; x=1590647148; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:message-id:subject:cc:to:from:date:x-thread-info; bh=rMMPMLUxCYP6oSFKOTfgGmLf31ogjLWecuo4sitr048=; b=YcqIfJeLapBSuKeSJE9a3EGifpVEC9PFc53shUGNvXz8P3YNtW1yMSC+eEKO6XTrdZtcDfdUuWSQIByFKpcbQp5Ids42LGluiPh31hXHHcGWcJvc1sJPB7zFqvXDQWfvCPLlFw97Ay9dVnrJQmylMAoBTbBxoVLWm0+of3maD4o= X-Thread-Info: NDI1MC45Mi4xZDRjMTAwMDNlM2I3OTcuZnJlZWJzZC1xdWVzdGlvbnM9ZnJlZWJzZC5vcmc= Received: from r3.sg.in.socketlabs.com (r3.sg.in.socketlabs.com [142.0.179.13]) by mxsg2.email-od.com with ESMTP; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 02:25:38 -0400 Received: from smtp.lan.sohara.org (EMTPY [185.202.17.215]) by r3.sg.in.socketlabs.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Tue, 28 Apr 2020 02:25:37 -0400 Received: from [192.168.63.1] (helo=steve.lan.sohara.org) by smtp.lan.sohara.org with smtp (Exim 4.92.3 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1jTJgV-000OP3-Q0; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 07:25:35 +0100 Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 07:25:35 +0100 From: Steve O'Hara-Smith To: Aryeh Friedman Cc: Daniel Feenberg , Arne Steinkamm , Ihor Antonov , FreeBSD Mailing List Subject: Re: Wayland on FreeBSD Message-Id: <20200428072535.c6ec1b898471d20728bb0cce@sohara.org> In-Reply-To: References: <5058973.kMyvyFPq5o@amos> <20200423085443.18f00e9649e8c71867505550@sohara.org> <20200423113134.GB93186@trajan.stk.cx> <20200428064750.f71f7f9517473623786b267f@sohara.org> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd12.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49BBV415y2z4K2S X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=email-od.com header.s=dkim header.b=YcqIfJeL; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of 4250.82.1d4c10003e3b797.7d32a96bc816cec82af2ee0e0d97673e@email-od.com designates 142.0.176.198 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=4250.82.1d4c10003e3b797.7d32a96bc816cec82af2ee0e0d97673e@email-od.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.61 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.95)[-0.948,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[email-od.com:s=dkim]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:142.0.176.0/20]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sohara.org]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.996,0]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[email-od.com:+]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[198.176.0.142.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.15.0]; IP_SCORE(0.03)[ip: (-0.22), ipnet: 142.0.176.0/22(0.31), asn: 7381(0.11), country: US(-0.05)]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[steve@sohara.org,4250.82.1d4c10003e3b797.7d32a96bc816cec82af2ee0e0d97673e@email-od.com]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7381, ipnet:142.0.176.0/22, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[steve@sohara.org,4250.82.1d4c10003e3b797.7d32a96bc816cec82af2ee0e0d97673e@email-od.com]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 06:25:48 -0000 On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 01:56:57 -0400 Aryeh Friedman wrote: > On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 1:47 AM Steve O'Hara-Smith > wrote: > > > On Mon, 27 Apr 2020 21:07:08 -0400 > > Aryeh Friedman wrote: > > > > > The jury seems to still out (at best) on the question of block vs. > > > file. I suspect the main issue are you NAS (file storage) or SAN > > > (block storage): > > > > Both have their uses and both are used heavily in large scale > > storage (tens of petabytes upwards). As always requirements dictate the > > best solution. > > > > > The point with OpenStack is the choice should of been left to the > user/admin instead they just out of the blue decided everything must be Yep such choices should always be left to the admin as long as they are real choices, which AFAICS this is. > the entire point of this subthread was to show that OpenStack picked wrong > and did so based on standard recommendations in the Linux community at the > time (2013-2014) and that those recommendations where/are still being made > and are demonstrably wrong. Following recommendations without understanding the reasons and consequences is not good engineering practice. Fortunately Linux (the kernel) and every Linux distribution I know of does a decent job of supporting NFS and even does as well as possible supporting CIFS (SMB) so both block and file based network storage are supported. There may be a vocal presence saying block is good and NFS is a disaster area in the Linux community (of course SMB/CIFS is intolerable too because it comes from Microsoft - who it hard to interoperate with). They can be safely ignored IMHO. > The other main point was to show why source > distrubtion is better then binary distrubtion (if OpenStack was available > in easy to compile source form [which is and was not] it would of been > trivial to do a after market patch to not require iSCSCI) Yep. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/