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Date:      Wed, 19 Sep 2012 20:59:15 +0100
From:      Ben Laurie <benl@freebsd.org>
To:        Pawel Jakub Dawidek <pjd@freebsd.org>
Cc:        freebsd-security@freebsd.org, Jonathan Anderson <jonathan.anderson@cl.cam.ac.uk>
Subject:   Re: Collecting entropy from device_attach() times.
Message-ID:  <CAG5KPzyxSMZ8X4RmEhCHA=dHTLUw5mOUf-oveJtOPx8im3dpeQ@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <20120919192923.GA1416@garage.freebsd.pl>
References:  <20120918211422.GA1400@garage.freebsd.pl> <A8FD98DD94774D00B4E5F78D3174C1B4@gmail.com> <20120919192923.GA1416@garage.freebsd.pl>

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On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 8:29 PM, Pawel Jakub Dawidek <pjd@freebsd.org> wrot=
e:
> On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 07:30:52PM +0100, Jonathan Anderson wrote:
>> > If all the times are more or less equally probable in this range [=85]
>>
>> They're very unlikely to be equally probable. It would make sense to do =
some characterization of these times and their statistics: a highly non-uni=
form distribution would mean that we don't actually get many bits per attac=
h.
>
> I have times for ~2000 device_attach() calls when loading sound card
> driver on totally idle system. If someone could take those and analyse
> the distribution that would be great.
>
>> > [=85] we have more
>> > than 19 bits of entropy from this one call, but I reduced if to four
>> > bits only, because there are devices that are much faster to attach.
>> >
>>
>> Another reason for doing the above characterization is that, if a partic=
ular device_attach() really does provide 12 bits of uncertainty, it's a sha=
me to drop eight of them on the floor.
>
> Rights. That's why I've prepared another patch:
>
>         http://people.freebsd.org/~pjd/patches/harvest_device_attach.2.pa=
tch
>
> which effectively discards top ten bits, which means we expect 0.1% of
> the attach time to be unpredictable (the attach time in most cases vary
> by few percent, not sure yet how much of this variation is really
> unpredictable).

This is the wrong thing to do! There's no reason to discard bits on
input (modulo the device throwing away inputs, that is) - just reduce
your entropy estimate. "Extra" bits do no harm.



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