From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Sep 10 23:14:37 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 974C21065672; Fri, 10 Sep 2010 23:14:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jhellenthal@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qw0-f54.google.com (mail-qw0-f54.google.com [209.85.216.54]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C9D88FC27; Fri, 10 Sep 2010 23:14:36 +0000 (UTC) Received: by qwg5 with SMTP id 5so2130409qwg.13 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 2010 16:14:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:sender:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject:references:in-reply-to :x-enigmail-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=UR/McMYZBGod7lzQeg+W2B4IyNenvehgvR+z/VJ/fzo=; b=Ip9IT5dcuncm8BRDWf+K7DO3QEPQ52Z433viBjsdy8e7ZJ2MLEs2MDfincLIIdiV9V BpCYMDGrpakAdHGOJo3GGYdYCiT98q3tXVo6nTOMbQjjLzQ1utZNhlttuIG6fHZuOI1h EU5i0RqHXBCuETZcDMACRucZERtlUPHLnwPgQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:x-enigmail-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=U16QYsux0xZpBgudy679tObUi9RsoPUPuKeGcSJE0NpAY/9bfdgU58ORi0G6qtfoGt W1b9T8+I3pf1Bf80OZK9HNPB4it6LTryojEzpW2ZpQgxPt0FCsyjkHdlrToKtozJWj7k hK84c2kKevmsrAycbCCKRdD0qNxwflzX7GV2w= Received: by 10.229.51.206 with SMTP id e14mr506641qcg.232.1284160475773; Fri, 10 Sep 2010 16:14:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from centel.dataix.local (adsl-99-181-137-20.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net [99.181.137.20]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id r36sm3263461qcs.39.2010.09.10.16.14.33 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Fri, 10 Sep 2010 16:14:34 -0700 (PDT) Sender: "J. Hellenthal" Message-ID: <4C8ABBD8.4020109@DataIX.net> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 19:14:32 -0400 From: jhell User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; FreeBSD i386; en-US; rv:1.9.2.9) Gecko/20100908 Lightning/1.0b1 Thunderbird MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Doug Barton References: <4C8A5CA0.1050700@feral.com> <4C8A7ACB.9070408@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <4C8A7ACB.9070408@FreeBSD.org> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.1.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: David DEMELIER , freebsd-current@freebsd.org, Matthew Jacob Subject: Re: DHCP server in base X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 23:14:37 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 09/10/2010 14:36, Doug Barton wrote: > On 9/10/2010 9:54 AM, David DEMELIER wrote: >> 2010/9/10 Matthew Jacob: >>> I think not. You are given the opportunity to install prebuilt >>> packages at install time, and with a modest amount of effort can >>> install prebuilt packages afterwards. >>> >>> IMO, such as it is, there should be *less* in the base system >>> than there currently is and more in ports. > > I agree with Matt on this one, although that shouldn't be a surprise > since I'm on record saying it often. :) > >> In this case there are some parts in base/ that could live in >> ports/ instead of the base directory such as hostapd(8), maybe >> nobody want to make a usable wireless access point? > > Unfortunately arguing to include something new in the base because > something else that you don't agree with is already there is not a > valid method. The bar is a lot higher for adding things than keeping > things (for better or worse). > >> And what about bind too? > > As I've said many times, I'm ready to have it out when there is > consensus to do so. The usual discussion goes like this: > > 1. Get BIND out of the base! 2. If we remove it, the command line > tools (dig, host, nslookup) go with it. 3. Oh, well, we like those, > so keep them, but get rid of the rest! 4. BIND is library based, so > 90% of the work to make the command line tools is building the libs, > after which building the server and its accessories is trivial work. > 5. Oh, well, then make knobs to disable the server! 6. That's already > done. 7. Oh, well, never mind then *mumble mumble* > > However, all that is likely to change at some point in the future > (as in, years from now) when BIND 10 becomes the only and/or most > viable option since it requires a lot of stuff that we are unlikely > to ever import into the base (like boost, python, etc.). So there is > hope for you anti-BIND folks yet! :) > > > Doug > This is where I say: I believe it would be the correct route to move toward a base package system for things like BIND DHCP... the common stuff that people would like to see in base but not really a conceptional sound idea. My theory behind this goes like this: Make a base package for bind-server, bind-utils, bind-tools or whatever you want to call them with the --package-root defined as /. Do this for ports/lang etc... type of stuff and ship them with the install CD/DVD's. If the user wants the base port then there is no harm done and they can trivially add it. This would leave room for other base system options to include too without having to permanently move things in and out of base because supporting them in-tree does not make sense or other reasons. Specifically I like this type of idea due to not needing to have a compiler (GCC) installed at all times. It could simply be added and removed from the base system by package or installed from ports and allow the end user to choose what they want when they want it. Stuff like GCC, BIND, DHCP Servers & other languages for this make sense. Why Not ? Regards, PS: I'll coin this idea (base-board-ports) .02 - -- jhell,v -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (FreeBSD) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJMirvXAAoJEJBXh4mJ2FR+SocH/3pK3s8L9bOb12a6IhhrKSdI mJZeFSyMdx3n4olIkd1VhYA2O6Qsl6hUBASitpbiJ3/9Vz/BAcCW2JE+Ub0rDwZT SG7vk0aaCtjFEBk5xdLM52iDKIGs5uNaKxYQMot0KX4pi/Obm7Pf8AGmQpc8RnSd PBbUX5T0kzbStPE59tQA9gW2UcTxKtx2up+Pzns8mYvUEb+dgEuwPo2rE10aZKuK lnfoZ2LclmQg1KmvzZATrRUxFjHdJQqD4PgPFGEAAWVDlzAFnwQhBufYtyT71lqZ 0T+XW5WQUo6WjjtweyV6uhfPeJUuk+DqkmDGw8oJIRfqYOm3yetSKiOoAgmJ9Qo= =brrR -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----