Skip site navigation (1)Skip section navigation (2)
Date:      Thu, 5 Sep 2002 09:25:35 -0700 (PDT)
From:      "Neal E. Westfall" <nwestfal@directvinternet.com>
To:        Joshua Lee <yid@softhome.net>
Cc:        chat@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: Fw: Re: Why did evolution fail?
Message-ID:  <20020905091446.R41451-100000@Tolstoy.home.lan>
In-Reply-To: <20020905005747.1f5964a2.yid@softhome.net>

next in thread | previous in thread | raw e-mail | index | archive | help


On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, Joshua Lee wrote:

> > > > It's because if you supply your own definition of "simple",
> > > > Occam's razor can be used to prove anything.
> > >
> > > No, it cannot be used to prove *anything*; only that which may be
> > > reduced to definitions and terms consistent with simplicity and
> > > complexity, with the former affirmed and the latter rejected. That
> >
> > A naturalist would insist that "natural" explanations are
> > the simplist, no matter how complex the details.  On the
>
> Occam's razor is being used here to refute the cosmological argument;
> you're distorting things with this strawman.

Nobody has even mentioned the cosmological argument until now, so
you are the one invoking a strawman.


> > other hand, a supernaturalist would claim the exact opposite,
> > although he cannot even begin to explain *how* God does the
> > things that he does.
>
> Actually, the simplist theological argument is that G-d is one; a
> trinity is not the most simple theological position.

Why do you refer to God as "G-d"?


> That being said I
> am not inclined to prove my religion with philosophical arguments
> because, following the Breslover Rebbe, I believe that philosophy
> provides unanswerable questions from the part of the universe that
> appears as a void devoid of the devine presence;

There is no part of the universe that is devoid of the divine presence.
(Psalm 139:7-12)  Philosophical arguments are unavoidable.  The fact
that philosophers have struggled with questions that still remain
unsolved is just one more piece of evidence that without God, you can't
prove anything.


> hence all a religionist
> can do in the face of such modes of thought is offer weak answers that
> make his intellectual position and level of faith worse rather than
> better. (This is not a "blind faith" position, it's important to examine
> as far as possible everything with the intellect, which is a better
> guide to what's good than the seat of emotions; but a man has got to
> know his limitations. :-) )

I think you are operating on a Thomistic notion of "faith".  Faith does
not take over where reason leaves off.  Faith is the foundation of
reason.  Reasoning would not even be possible without faith.  I argue
that only *Christian* faith can account for reason, but here I suppose
we disagree.


Neal



To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message




Want to link to this message? Use this URL: <https://mail-archive.FreeBSD.org/cgi/mid.cgi?20020905091446.R41451-100000>