From nobody Mon Dec 4 18:00:17 2023 X-Original-To: stable@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4SkWff283Zz52d45 for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2023 18:00:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from karl@denninger.net) Received: from colo1.denninger.net (colo1.denninger.net [104.236.120.189]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4SkWfd3T8Kz3NpB for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2023 18:00:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from karl@denninger.net) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of karl@denninger.net designates 104.236.120.189 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=karl@denninger.net; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=denninger.net Received: from denninger.net (096-033-195-197.res.spectrum.com [96.33.195.197]) by colo1.denninger.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 723E32110DD for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2023 13:00:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from [192.168.10.25] (D15.Denninger.Net [192.168.10.25]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by denninger.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 036EF298AAD for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2023 13:00:18 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <02ab3650-3e42-4e92-a14f-559d9d3b0b13@denninger.net> Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2023 13:00:17 -0500 List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-stable List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: FreeBSD Errata Notice FreeBSD-EN-23:16.openzfs Content-Language: en-US To: stable@freebsd.org References: <20231201031737.DF0231B942@freefall.freebsd.org> <445y1eaxiz.fsf@be-well.ilk.org> <20231204230246.f11fce2914500a99e094de0b@dec.sakura.ne.jp> From: Karl Denninger In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-512; boundary="------------ms020407070906030709080402" X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.78 / 15.00]; SIGNED_SMIME(-2.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.89)[-0.890]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[denninger.net,none]; MIME_GOOD(-0.20)[multipart/signed,multipart/alternative,text/plain]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[stable@freebsd.org]; ASN(0.00)[asn:14061, ipnet:104.236.64.0/18, country:US]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:+,3:~,4:~]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[karl]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[stable@freebsd.org]; HAS_ATTACHMENT(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4SkWfd3T8Kz3NpB X-Spamd-Bar: ----- This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms020407070906030709080402 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------OPEkGwm264EgXFclFmeylaNj" --------------OPEkGwm264EgXFclFmeylaNj Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 12/4/2023 12:51, Xin LI wrote: > > > On Mon, Dec 4, 2023 at 8:32 AM Tomoaki AOKI > wrote: > > On Mon, 04 Dec 2023 08:48:52 -0500 > Lowell Gilbert wrote: > > > Kurt Jaeger writes: > > > > > I had thought that the ZFS fix is a kernel fix so that the kernel > > > would also report -p1, but it does not. It might be because > > > zfs is a kernel module, so the kernel itself was not really > patched, > > > but I might be wrong here. > > > > As far as I can see, that seems exactly right. > > As this kind of confusion caused by mismatch of patchlevel between > kernel and userland arises from time to time, now would be the time to > switch to keep patchlevel in sync between kernel and userland. > > This would force both kernel and userland to be built using the same > patchlevel, even if one of which is actually unchanged. > But maybe helpful to avoid confusion like this. > > What was worse this time was that a non-in-kernel-but-in-tree module, > zfs.ko, is updated but kernel itself is not updated. > > > Part of this is because freebsd-update generally wants to exclude > cosmetic changes (like build timestamps, etc., which does not have an > effect on runtime behavior) in binary patches, so in order to "fix" > this we would need to change the update builder, at the expense of > always delivering a kernel change regardless if there are any real > changes to the binary.  At the time when I owned the builder code, the > consensus was that we are moving to a packaged base really soon (tm) > and the builder is in "maintenance mode" so we didn't invest a lot in > this front. > > Cheers, I would argue that if /kernel modules /are implicated in a patch then either (1) the kernel /version /has to come from a module (and thus be bumped if any of said modules are updated) or (2) the kernel /itself /has to be updated so its version can be patched. #1 is obviously a /lot/ less intrusive and perhaps the correct answer: /The "kernel revision" is incremented when *_either_* the kernel itself or any of its loadable modules are patched/updated, and the revision *_itself_* is in a loadable module and thus can be updated as a tiny little file instead of the entire kernel./ -- Karl Denninger karl@denninger.net /The Market Ticker/ /[S/MIME encrypted email preferred]/ --------------OPEkGwm264EgXFclFmeylaNj Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
On 12/4/2023 12:51, Xin LI wrote:


On Mon, Dec 4, 2023 at 8:32 AM Tomoaki AOKI <junchoon@dec.sakura.ne.jp> wrote:
On Mon, 04 Dec 2023 08:48:52 -0500
Lowell Gilbert <freebsd-stable-local@be-well.ilk.org> wrote:

> Kurt Jaeger <pi@freebsd.org> writes:
>
> > I had thought that the ZFS fix is a kernel fix so that the kernel
> > would also report -p1, but it does not. It might be because
> > zfs is a kernel module, so the kernel itself was not really patched,
> > but I might be wrong here.
>
> As far as I can see, that seems exactly right.

As this kind of confusion caused by mismatch of patchlevel between
kernel and userland arises from time to time, now would be the time to
switch to keep patchlevel in sync between kernel and userland.

This would force both kernel and userland to be built using the same
patchlevel, even if one of which is actually unchanged.
But maybe helpful to avoid confusion like this.

What was worse this time was that a non-in-kernel-but-in-tree module,
zfs.ko, is updated but kernel itself is not updated.

Part of this is because freebsd-update generally wants to exclude cosmetic changes (like build timestamps, etc., which does not have an effect on runtime behavior) in binary patches, so in order to "fix" this we would need to change the update builder, at the expense of always delivering a kernel change regardless if there are any real changes to the binary.  At the time when I owned the builder code, the consensus was that we are moving to a packaged base really soon (tm) and the builder is in "maintenance mode" so we didn't invest a lot in this front.

Cheers,

I would argue that if kernel modules are implicated in a patch then either (1) the kernel version has to come from a module (and thus be bumped if any of said modules are updated) or (2) the kernel itself has to be updated so its version can be patched.

#1 is obviously a lot less intrusive and perhaps the correct answer: The "kernel revision" is incremented when either the kernel itself or any of its loadable modules are patched/updated, and the revision itself is in a loadable module and thus can be updated as a tiny little file instead of the entire kernel.

--
Karl Denninger
karl@denninger.net
The Market Ticker
[S/MIME encrypted email preferred]
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