From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Dec 8 19:28:18 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 56BE7A92; Sun, 8 Dec 2013 19:28:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mx1.fisglobal.com (mx1.fisglobal.com [199.200.24.190]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 141AD18C3; Sun, 8 Dec 2013 19:28:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.fisglobal.com ([10.132.206.31]) by ltcfislmsgpa02.fnfis.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id rB8JRwmS027218 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Sun, 8 Dec 2013 13:27:58 -0600 Received: from LTCFISWMSGMB21.FNFIS.com ([169.254.1.7]) by LTCFISWMSGHT03.FNFIS.com ([10.132.206.31]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Sun, 8 Dec 2013 13:27:56 -0600 From: "Teske, Devin" To: Alfred Perlstein Subject: Re: BIND segway -> python -> first-class ports Thread-Topic: BIND segway -> python -> first-class ports Thread-Index: AQHO9EPVAMsIQg72sUSzcf93F1B7uw== Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2013 19:27:56 +0000 Message-ID: References: <529E8C53.6020208@freebsd.org> <20131204060246.GV2951@home.opsec.eu> <52A12843.3010204@freebsd.org> <0BFC927B-D72E-4926-BB3D-2C000F310BDD@fisglobal.com> <7271C4C4-7BAB-4DA7-9E10-49D5B2DB8964@mu.org> In-Reply-To: <7271C4C4-7BAB-4DA7-9E10-49D5B2DB8964@mu.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.132.253.120] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <2A7FBEE0C9B46749BAB4FC87109C7991@fisglobal.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.11.72, 1.0.14, 0.0.0000 definitions=2013-12-08_01:2013-12-06,2013-12-08,1970-01-01 signatures=0 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 08 Dec 2013 20:29:11 +0000 Cc: Tom Evans , "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Stable" , Alfred Perlstein , "Teske, Devin" , Daniel Eischen , Kevin Oberman , Kurt Jaeger , Devin Teske , Julian Elischer X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list Reply-To: Devin Teske List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2013 19:28:18 -0000 On Dec 8, 2013, at 11:02 AM, Alfred Perlstein wrote: >=20 >> On Dec 8, 2013, at 10:32 AM, "Teske, Devin" = wrote: >>=20 >>=20 >>> On Dec 5, 2013, at 5:28 PM, Alfred Perlstein wrote: >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> On 12/5/13, 4:39 PM, Kevin Oberman wrote: >>>>> On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 9:17 AM, Tom Evans = wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>>> On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 5:09 PM, Kevin Oberman = wrote: >>>>>> Of course, the question of what needs to be a class 1 port may prove= to >>>>> be >>>>>> the bikeshed to end all bikesheds! (I think we need Python, Perl, JP= EG, >>>>>> PNG, GPG, BIND and bright yellow!) And we need a reasonable mechanis= m to >>>>>> update this list as the popularity of various tools does change. >>>>> Woah, this is missing most of what Alfred was saying. There should be >>>>> no "class 1 ports", and if jpeg went in base, it should be because >>>>> base requires and uses it, not because it is useful to 3rd party >>>>> software in base. The base jpeg *would not* even be visible to >>>>> ports/3rd party software by default, only to base and things >>>>> especially configured to use base. >>>>>=20 >>>>> You are correct. I did not understand Alfred's proposal correctly. Of >>>> course, I can see several issues with that, as well, but it' a lot more >>>> tractable than a set of "baseline" ports. >>> Tom hit the nail on the head and perfectly described the proposal. Than= k you Tom. Kevin, thanks for being open to the idea. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> My hope is that it allows us to build richer system. For instance, go = look at portsnap(1), it's written in sh(1) and due to that it's pretty slow >>=20 >> Perhaps bsdconfig is the exception to that rule (and can lend a hand). >> I designed bsdconfig to run fast under double-emulation... >>=20 >> + Running under qemu, while... >> + Qemu is running inside a VM, wile... >> + VM has only 1 CPU and 128MB RAM, with minimal disk space, while... >> + VM is running on a 8 year old laptop >>=20 >> The idea is that... if you develop for the worst of environments... you'= ll get >> screamin' performance on modern hardware. >>=20 >> In my emulation environment... a single fork is very costly. >>=20 >> So... >>=20 >> Does portsnap need some work? is that what I'm hearing? (smiles) >=20 > My take is that you are a very talented person who shouldn't be spending = time micro optimizing shell code and instead be granted a language that mak= es writing such tools more efficiently easier.=20 >=20 > So if I were going to task the talented Devin Teske with something, remem= ber you just asked my opinion, then it would be to look at putting Lua in t= he boot loader, getting python into base, or working on making our utilitie= s be able to output standard machine readable formats such as yaml, XML and= json.=20=20 >=20 My opinion is one of... + I get to work with an amazing team + I love to please So if that's the consenting direction, I'll go that route ;D I can see the value-add in all of those things. My only fear is recoil (so = perhaps a test bed of FreeNAS to show those things are of great value once added). --=20 Devin _____________ The information contained in this message is proprietary and/or confidentia= l. 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