From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 23 18:41:58 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72E3A242; Wed, 23 Oct 2013 18:41:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qa0-x22b.google.com (mail-qa0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c00::22b]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0E5AC2482; Wed, 23 Oct 2013 18:41:57 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-qa0-f43.google.com with SMTP id i13so4477580qae.9 for ; Wed, 23 Oct 2013 11:41:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=AxycB3RJW5Cd4IUIveRtCyoo5g5S1IaTwr61nrDwh20=; b=MSCFQkQn4VwdqUdeCoFjBdjpuMzf1Ofam76MBk+z1wpM43CzjS6gQrwcKNmrPoC5NU aMmoeBzuFnJpNaqQeRFHc/bxLNfu37J8tTDThyOcyqJCF7o029ac3zFl4hxk0wTSKpx/ +2Spb5uvdmB+jkCQ7+B4k5crJhKMBhvh//T/B3rIwADM5yhd8Nhwh0ny+F+pAPAwUZTr rE6ckn2w5+DxHhvDA0vBgCT8FoEBnNe5ghu3khIhE9uLNAa0ub2ikqhiJ7vW5HNxuqxa DlPX9Ir5xPZH7U+DymhMlJ9OvsKrvaYbdOnvhCKxfu+KkKVTs1RadBa/Kjzfw41kwIAf +Ldg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.63.199 with SMTP id c7mr5980820qai.74.1382553717092; Wed, 23 Oct 2013 11:41:57 -0700 (PDT) Sender: adrian.chadd@gmail.com Received: by 10.224.207.66 with HTTP; Wed, 23 Oct 2013 11:41:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.224.207.66 with HTTP; Wed, 23 Oct 2013 11:41:57 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <201310231427.16812.jhb@freebsd.org> References: <5265878B.1050809@yandex.ru> <526810DB.20705@mu.org> <201310231427.16812.jhb@freebsd.org> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 11:41:57 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: PSUlcbmldlLODHi9w1mecQWBsu0 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [rfc] removing the NDISulator From: Adrian Chadd To: John Baldwin Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.14 Cc: "Julian H. Stacey" , "Andrey V. Elsukov" , Alfred Perlstein , "freebsd-wireless@freebsd.org" , freebsd-current X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 18:41:58 -0000 And the link momentum is strong now. There's driver source. Adrian On Oct 23, 2013 2:41 PM, "John Baldwin" wrote: > On Wednesday, October 23, 2013 2:11:29 pm Adrian Chadd wrote: > > On 23 October 2013 11:09, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > > > > > > Eh, having taken a stab at porting the bwl blob already, I would > strongly > > >> oppose removing NDIS. If you do that I will just stop using my > netbook > > >> with a Broadcom part altogether as I wouldn't be able to use it to > try to > > >> test bwl changes. The NDIS thing is a bit hackish, but it is quite > useful > > >> for a lot of folks. > > >> > > >> I have to agree. Deprecation != motivation. > > > > > > I can pull out examples of this not holding true: > > > > * all the giant locking in drivers > > * all the giant locking in VFS > > > > People did pop up and claim ownership of things they cared about. Some > > stuff died, some stuff didn't. There was enough of a motivation by us to > > kill giant off in these pathways so things could continue to evolve. We > > didn't leave the GIANT crutch in forever. > > Giant isn't dead yet. :) (And I've done a lot of the de-Gianting FWIW.) > > I don't consider ndis in the same camp. Often times there are vendors > where > datasheets, etc. are not obtainable, but a foo.sys + foo.inf is. > > -- > John Baldwin >