From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 6 17:10:07 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87A21106566B for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 17:10:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from imp@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-ob0-f182.google.com (mail-ob0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3561D8FC0C for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2012 17:10:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: by obbun3 with SMTP id un3so19198530obb.13 for ; Fri, 06 Jul 2012 10:10:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=sender:subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer :x-gm-message-state; bh=nXiAg6xNi86sOawHOe32TtitwAELgkY0b0w6RYrIf6o=; b=FBQX5gnetCwnOfjknsbii+CYIIyrfubl3bUMawTiiYlkflCaHF8BAnQK/UhfFp+uop uAY5wJXksm6nIECCN/Jqaff3Ud+jA0nfwtUt2HEU87NEXmNctFX4Wnde6X2/qi5t2+03 oqt90yCcNeVIKwZ1ZUxwxhk3SLx9jAJJB+blFFRMwvKJQnohiDIWsP12UKv9IBhtB1GQ WxMyehreOKQJg9SgaC6t+rr5XnKht8iCagyAervShzh0qyI6vbDX6Gq22vmxx1u6Os/l YdaruG5DG63hYEyj6joVVmyahtTEiBSJdZPzOfVD4FUKvGz8l9UNs0E2zKtR7BWMf5fm Z3aA== Received: by 10.60.2.131 with SMTP id 3mr31789340oeu.59.1341594606793; Fri, 06 Jul 2012 10:10:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.30.101.53] ([209.117.142.2]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id jn2sm18984503obb.13.2012.07.06.10.10.05 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Fri, 06 Jul 2012 10:10:05 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Warner Losh Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Warner Losh In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 11:09:59 -0600 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <05171492-A9C9-42B0-A111-5B3427D58B4F@bsdimp.com> References: <20120705082857.GB37083@server.rulingia.com> <4FF55864.8040807@FreeBSD.org> <201207051215.44799.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> To: Wojciech Puchar X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmw3d807nmYlqazazZHsAJ0zH5GiniUU6YnjadKU2DR8QyYxyYKlk74xMTWJyMnaHa2xodc Cc: Eitan Adler , Jonathan McKeown , Chris Rees , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Training wheels for commandline (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2012 17:10:07 -0000 On Jul 6, 2012, at 10:46 AM, Wojciech Puchar wrote: >>=20 >> The system should be optimized for new users by default. Whether this >> means enabling or disabling a feature is feature-specific. >>=20 > with such attitude it will not take long to turn FreeBSD to useless = thing, not really different from linux or windows, and about as useful Actually, systems should be optimized to be most useful for the largest = number of users. I tend to agree with the sentiment expressed elsewhere = in this thread: it should be OFF by default in the base, but we should = encourage distributions that cater to new and/or users of other = platforms to turn a feature like this on. I'm neutral on the error message, but changing it to say 'fred: Command = not found. See pkg_which(8).' or something like that is easy. On the = other hand, we tend to not do that elsewhere for error messages. This = is a fairly easy thing to do to trim fat off this problem, which may be = exceptional enough to call for an exception to our usual practice. Warner