From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Mar 3 00:05:34 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E863C1065674; Sat, 3 Mar 2012 00:05:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wi0-f182.google.com (mail-wi0-f182.google.com [209.85.212.182]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB1128FC13; Sat, 3 Mar 2012 00:05:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: by wibhn6 with SMTP id hn6so1206200wib.13 for ; Fri, 02 Mar 2012 16:05:32 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=SfmPZqkIyJCjYQ6uHKbFLgHCYuPrB5t0q4/sfi9GlXw=; b=rc6jzprusTAOJE4NpS6qJ9hd+BNVsjMs8lZYIMTQdKxV8S/JrVfH0vT0lwYMu+QhOU MGmJzjRAGksCe5P9cAXnr5otyFnuyCAsOZgvio8S7TKNytWgXQVm0byS3QHbWMcdnEya 39JNLhlYFUosPbF2/k844dAF51WOyMP6nc0Qs/sZscdOu8S8eSXPzZ3Zg3Sxa5pdpZcy aPgCE0ifIG2oa47183wkNXDG0RHwHiLCijyczeRRJ2K+dQZERDmNO4+/irawoXKjoORn gbTwFJD5CxRCeLfUfJ0rJbXvMFjUkCgyMBtz28wikuSzJrbBEe1fvi4ou0lZrGlrZShh bceg== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.180.78.6 with SMTP id x6mr559918wiw.18.1330733132920; Fri, 02 Mar 2012 16:05:32 -0800 (PST) Sender: adrian.chadd@gmail.com Received: by 10.216.198.81 with HTTP; Fri, 2 Mar 2012 16:05:32 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <20120221143537.Horde.deyFDZjmRSRPQ52pxBIpnLA@webmail.leidinger.net> <4F4BA707.5070608@wasikowski.net> <4F4C3FE7.3040802@FreeBSD.org> <4F4D51CB.2010508@FreeBSD.org> <4F4D5E5D.9040302@FreeBSD.org> <4F4DD288.5060106@FreeBSD.org> <4F4ED889.2070608@FreeBSD.org> <4F500BB9.4040307@FreeBSD.org> <4F5088CA.1090108@FreeBSD.org> <4F510FBD.50008@FreeBSD.org> <4F5117A6.2030003@FreeBSD.org> Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2012 16:05:32 -0800 X-Google-Sender-Auth: gALs1Y7QuN0ChbnB304RivKdlig Message-ID: From: Adrian Chadd To: "K. Macy" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: stable@freebsd.org, Doug Barton , current@freebsd.org, =?ISO-8859-2?Q?z_W=B1sikowski?= , Arnaud Lacombe , "Bjoern A. Zeeb" , Alexander Leidinger Subject: Re: flowtable usable or not X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2012 00:05:35 -0000 I've had the same problem with wireless. For some users, wireless works flawlessly. For other users, it's completely unusable. Trying to get any kind of useful feedback from people has been impossible at best. I've even had FreeBSD developers, sitting in the developers IRC channel, say wifi is so broken on FreeBSD they have to boot into windows to get anything done. Yet I still haven't seen any PRs about this. This is why I've been pushing people to keep filing PRs. I can't even begin to investigate what I don't know is broken and if the _developers_ don't use FreeBSD because supported wifi stuff is broken, then .. well, no hope, etc. The honest truth is this: for any system to work, there needs to be: * sufficient users reporting issues; * sufficient developers (and/or companies) wanting it to work and keeping the bug fixes coming; * a healthy cycle between the above two. If _either_ there are no developers or there is no feedback to the developer(s), the cycle breaks, and things rot in very annoying ways. Then you have the next problem, which is: * if it doesn't work, noone will use it * if noone uses it, noone will work on it. Try breaking that cycle. 2c, Adrian