From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun Feb 16 07:51:10 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC69125713F for ; Sun, 16 Feb 2020 07:51:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) Received: from sonic312-27.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (sonic312-27.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com [77.238.178.98]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48Kznn1NkMz3Q0Z for ; Sun, 16 Feb 2020 07:51:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) X-YMail-OSG: ifkkx_IVM1lSTivWdgr4fFfZ0eilWVXyjGQJsucK99CU3oErTygsHd2Crn8rCWY yjOlmS_7tSHy_aTfyCuxHS3D.95LuJ49Ahb6ZTq8_0b5m6CRSD0iwt8wb20Zcu7I8kpYM_TYnpvj t0N3kScU2kzEg_RBOQZG_fYdpv3yyjWvAkLJ9n5TlACCdEHsbZu9GbH6zfzQcf9lSG_O97TKUIV9 7q_zlcoLdMwxAZ5qDmi3SlHCIQlJ2c9RFawJ9IjShzwNgOr5Wt8vChaZxag._610lZYluvQx7Wrn lGeN9v_OmP5SGLyapPcadpIPqnWQhIeeaRbHBB95aSRYgyTAtNy_L_LhT_Edr4T8dJYjrxoaGKjC BSKCCXJLQFu.FPj1ZXQsv5e0cB_n_shM9aLgarQ4MxnTCMng7eq7lB9GyGvmIK.n8387WDjYiB6l MOyc9bK4iTG7QhtiSrXkTd7M2jQ35gGSCutDR3d3I2CjWycjXQY3LMBft8ybkNJicef7Y1fKHbby JSLiMtTBEl9xzyu7GwLUs2yp1GnMVs9YgVB0posqPkM46yCQnfGz5ZDaLxVh6OgPah9wsj.MNiNE uEZMlK.vsDgpb8dloP1SNguGmUTdK5YEYUllbindquFw9U6Lfht9rzlIJOWJyRGjSfzcDgBUrRsg ELLcqvJ3jhc18VaJUk1kFP2VcQs5QNLhEZa5Cmod6eZ6tWhO4RDCnZaIFX31zOtZzt5RnsF67Mh. _KPCD5DFs78_REtLyipQ63vOeLad60AzkORw.7cc3zHYd1h_oxvxrjbD3jZ8gm_XqXX3RpSfP8tJ DOlE3_v1yHTOj8.f8jkZ00nbRV5dUFUItHHG4SFfn4.uqkKRYEl9HXMWw.dWSq74_OrNP2o6d6wo 2xEV_LeQvBfZ5LmMmdlCntcb_vZDIQqtVCUEzpt638bpxEEZgyMWE2s68LZVY35NpEgwPVNkZGZW Z92blKiw7rWgIyrk_QRp95aJPHoaFAv1L3_iaD0ibYKln0lBb5cQWEkLHOSfX8NohSncvg7UNxot FMKs3kYPm22ICAn4kWsCAMfZQNJKqEzH8D74ELI3LGbeSYAlO_U3CV1nFZR9ObkmSMSlsFoidvrx .xiJK.ks8CIJEdLKmyfYtpTD_ajOdGLjgjjTEe8cDwAay9JIv3ZWZuG_HBbGvrC7EdoI6dt_kNT0 twNZz9JUjzcNTbK4tOgEwxv.T5WmnmNlppzGQbOYm4oPSDAqeRhxDWniri43QFvsVuGFR1cG2Sd2 ELaN_1C2QysTDR4Sb6x6iRryuaU1VjeH2S7qYh.0sp_FlwhmZ8MJDJ6IDgbP8jJuqploMkdwIWzA AM5v1Ifqo84TfptrpOrR4zoyT33YCsKfNI0gpOHZsLqP6gAXGLXcKSJ_Wt.HWU6mtf6U3ELqEwCH tSZbhM1xP4I_hlAfEyZ8- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic312.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sun, 16 Feb 2020 07:51:06 +0000 Received: by smtp417.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (Oath Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 80b1dc72a772e8c7b76ac267364224fc; Sun, 16 Feb 2020 07:51:02 +0000 (UTC) Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2020 08:51:03 +0100 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: terminology and history (was Re: Re updating BIOS) Message-ID: <20200216085103.060caf80@archlinux> In-Reply-To: <202002160656.01G6uBYm008146@sdf.org> References: <202002120724.01C7OcSW005991@sdf.org> <202002160656.01G6uBYm008146@sdf.org> X-Mailer: Claws Mail (linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 48Kznn1NkMz3Q0Z X-Spamd-Bar: - X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.44 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.15)[-0.154,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[rocketmail.com:s=s2048]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.80)[-0.801,0]; IP_SCORE_FREEMAIL(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[rocketmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[rocketmail.com,reject]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[98.178.238.77.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[ip: (3.25), ipnet: 77.238.176.0/22(2.15), asn: 34010(1.70), country: GB(-0.07)]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[98.178.238.77.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.17]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:34010, ipnet:77.238.176.0/22, country:GB]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2020 07:51:10 -0000 On Sun, 16 Feb 2020 00:56:11 -0600, Scott Bennett wrote: >Ottavio Caruso wrote: > >> On Wed, 12 Feb 2020 at 07:24, Scott Bennett wrote: >> >> > >> > On Sun, 9 Feb 2020 08:41:11 +0000 Steve O'Hara-Smith >> > wrote: >> > >> > >On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 02:09:59 -0600 >> > >Scott Bennett wrote: >> > > >> > >> The first part of the above, mispunctuated pair of >> > >> sentences is correct, but the latter part is not. FreeDOS, >> > >> like PC-DOS and MSDOS before it, is/was not an operating >> > >> system, but rather a more primitive creature known as a monitor >> > >> system. >> > > >> > > The DOS part of those names is an abbreviation of 'Disc >> > > Operating >> > >System' - clearly at the time they were considered operating >> > >systems even >> > >> > They may have been considered that by amateurs from the ham >> > radio community >> >> Stopped reading here. >> >> The "amateurs from the ham radio community" are (and at least were >> back in the 70s) much more skilled than you paint them. The first >> form > > Really? That was not my experience in the United States. Here > there >appeared to be very little overlap between computer programmers and >ham radio operators. When CPU chips with word lengths greater than >four bits appeared in '75 or '76, both communities began to take >interest. Once kits and already built small computers were available >on the market, quite a few members of the ham community began learning >how to program, but it was several more years before a large >percentage knew much about programming. By the same token, it was >quite a while before many programmers got into building hardware. I >suspect that the electrical engineering community may have had much >more overlap with hams and with programmers, but as the mostly >distinct groups at that time. By the early 1980s the ham community >did include many people with susbstantial programming knowledge. Really? I can't comment on this from my own experiences, but a Linux pen pal from Virginia between 80 and 90 years old, AFAIK not a ham enthusiast, but an audio and video engineer (as I was myself) started already when transistors didn't exist, probably might proof you wrong. I'm a native 6005/6010 Assembly programmer from the 80th, from Germany and never had to do something related to ham Radio, but a friend of mine, in my age, was radio operator for the Bundeswehr that time. Back to the original topic, the time when *DOS existed (>= 1981), we already had worldwide very skilled people who actually know how to use a soldering station and how to program Assembly and even higher languages. Consider the term "operating system" with common sense and historical reality.