From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG  Fri Aug  1 13:46:54 2008
Return-Path: <owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG>
Delivered-To: arch@freebsd.org
Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74B191065673;
	Fri,  1 Aug 2008 13:46:54 +0000 (UTC)
	(envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk)
Received: from phk.freebsd.dk (phk.freebsd.dk [130.225.244.222])
	by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F65C8FC23;
	Fri,  1 Aug 2008 13:46:54 +0000 (UTC)
	(envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk)
Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (unknown [192.168.64.3])
	by phk.freebsd.dk (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5BE7170E3;
	Fri,  1 Aug 2008 13:46:52 +0000 (UTC)
Received: from critter.freebsd.dk (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by critter.freebsd.dk (8.14.2/8.14.2) with ESMTP id m71DkqD7064695;
	Fri, 1 Aug 2008 13:46:52 GMT (envelope-from phk@critter.freebsd.dk)
To: John Baldwin <jhb@freebsd.org>
From: "Poul-Henning Kamp" <phk@phk.freebsd.dk>
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 01 Aug 2008 09:01:39 -0400."
	<200808010901.39545.jhb@freebsd.org> 
Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 13:46:52 +0000
Message-ID: <64694.1217598412@critter.freebsd.dk>
Sender: phk@critter.freebsd.dk
Cc: FreeBSD Arch <arch@freebsd.org>, freebsd-current@freebsd.org,
	Ed Schouten <ed@80386.nl>
Subject: Re: Reminder: non-mpsafetty drivers to be connected on Sunday 
X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
Precedence: list
List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture <freebsd-arch.freebsd.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch>,
	<mailto:freebsd-arch-request@freebsd.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-arch>
List-Post: <mailto:freebsd-arch@freebsd.org>
List-Help: <mailto:freebsd-arch-request@freebsd.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-arch>,
	<mailto:freebsd-arch-request@freebsd.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 13:46:54 -0000

In message <200808010901.39545.jhb@freebsd.org>, John Baldwin writes:
>On Friday 01 August 2008 08:53:18 am Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:

>> A MPSAFE tty subsystem is infinitely more important than any particular
>> non-console tty driver.
>>
>> If FreeBSD should have digi(4) support in the future somebody should
>> spend some quality with the driver, instead of stopping Ed from
>> making much necessary progress.
>
>On the other hand, we didn't throw out half the NIC drivers when we did the 
>MPSAFE network stack locking either, we allowed for a transition that gave 
>time for individual drivers to be locked.

First there are close to 10 years of difference in how relevant
serial ports and ethernet interfaces are.

Second, I think we could have saved if we had done just that :-)

Poul-Henning

-- 
Poul-Henning Kamp       | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk@FreeBSD.ORG         | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer       | BSD since 4.3-tahoe    
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.