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Date:      Tue, 02 May 2023 09:57:21 +0200
From:      Corvin =?ISO-8859-1?Q?K=F6hne?= <corvink@FreeBSD.org>
To:        Matthew Grooms <mgrooms@shrew.net>, Rob Wing <rob.fx907@gmail.com>
Cc:        freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-virtualization@freebsd.org,  elenamihailescu22@gmail.com, Mihai Carabas <mihai.carabas@gmail.com>,  gusev.vitaliy@gmail.com
Subject:   Re: BHYVE_SNAPSHOT
Message-ID:  <3ab4e6d94fb0153fb6ff4a53ac6f53b2eaae0cf7.camel@FreeBSD.org>
In-Reply-To: <89c84bd7-a925-02f4-acbe-12c3000e7007@shrew.net>
References:  <ZEz8tU_83QfqbbMu@int21h> <fe221c6a-acb7-ddbd-413d-7039de33e872@shrew.net> <CAF3%2Bn_fN4J4jXH89t8gMOD8QpqAike0Uzrb9wUfKoYv56zQt_w@mail.gmail.com> <89c84bd7-a925-02f4-acbe-12c3000e7007@shrew.net>

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On Tue, 2023-05-02 at 01:16 -0500, Matthew Grooms wrote:
> On 4/30/23 21:31, Rob Wing wrote:
> > =C2=A0Hey Matthew,
> >=20
> > On Sun, Apr 30, 2023 at 1:41=E2=80=AFPM Matthew Grooms <mgrooms@shrew.n=
et>
> > wrote:
> > >=20
> > > =C2=A0Would you like to see support for VM snapshots in the generic
> > > kernel?
> >=20
> > Is there a review open that addresses the limitations described in
> > the commit message that brought the snapshot feature in?
> > https://github.com/freebsd/freebsd-src/commit/483d953a86a2507355f8287c5=
107dc827a0ff516
>=20
> Yes. The next set of project goals where not pulled out of thin air.
> They were selected specifically to address the limitations that
> prevented snapshots from being in the mainline kernel after the
> initial commit. That's why patches for AMD CPU, Multiple Devices ( >1
> of the same type ), Capsicum and JSON file format for snapshots were
> developed. They were identified as the major per-requisite for
> lifting conditional compilation.
> > >=20
> > > =C2=A0How about support for warm or live migration?
> >=20
> > This builds off the snapshot work, right? Seems like it'd make more
> > sense to address the current limitations of the snapshot code
> > before extending the functionality off the top of it.
>=20
> Yup. See above. I appreciate your input, but the goal of live
> migration was set in 2016 with a prototype first demonstrated in
> 2018. How long do you suggest a developer wait without review
> feedback before moving forward out of tree?

The snapshot feature isn't compiled in by default. So, it's likely that
changes break it and only a few people are testing it.

We have to focus on getting this into the tree.

> > > There are experimental patches for all these features that were
> > > developed by students at UPB. In a lot of cases, there are open
> > > reviews that have been waiting on feedback for ages.
> >=20
> > In general, most people don't want to review large experimental
> > patches.
>=20
> Yup. That approach was attempted with the Warm Migration patches.
> From slide 17 in Elena's presentation:
>=20
> =C2=A0First review opened in 2021: https://reviews.freebsd.org/D28270
> =C2=A05 reviews from 2022 starting with https://reviews.freebsd.org/D3471=
7
> (same feature split in multiple parts)
> =C2=A0
> =C2=A0A similar request was made recently to Gusev Vitaliy WRT the
> multiple device support patch which he took ownership of. Thanks for
> adding feedback to that review BTW. We'll see how that pans out ...
>=20
> =C2=A0https://reviews.freebsd.org/D35590
>=20

I've already reviewed Vitaliy's multi device support patch=C2=A0and people
had more than enough time to complain about it. I'm going to commit it
as soon as he splits his commit.
=C2=A0=C2=A0
> > > =C2=A0The case is quite plain. I'm not sure what the solution is to
> > > this=20
> > > =C2=A0problem. I'd love to hear feedback from the community about how
> > > I've got=20
> > > =C2=A0this completely wrong and how the course could be corrected.
> > > That would=20
> > > =C2=A0be something.
> > >=20
> >=20
> > My perspective is that it would have been better to focus student
> > efforts on completing the snapshot feature. By completing the
> > snapshot feature, I mean getting the code into a state where it's
> > compiled in by default and no longer considered an experimental
> > feature.
> >=20
> I'm not sure what more to say hear regarding the snapshot feature or
> what might have been done in the past. We need a solution for the
> present. If you have any comments related to the follow up reviews
> submitted by UPB, I'm sure they'd love to hear them.
> And lastly: I get that FreeBSD is a non paid volunteer project for
> most. Without the efforts of folks like Peter, Neel, John and others,
> there would be no bhyve. I'm not saying that they, as project
> maintainers, should somehow be doing more. We all have limited time
> to invest, paid work to do and families to feed. I'm asking if there
> are other developers that might be willing and able to help with
> reviews? Is there something the FreeBSD foundation can do help out in
> situations like these?
> Thanks,
> -Matthew
> =C2=A0

UPB has developed some interesting features and I'd like to see those
in tree. I can take some time to review the patches. Nevertheless, we
really need the snapshot feature compiled in by default. Otherwise,
it's wasted time for all of us.


--=20
Kind regards,
Corvin

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