From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 5 10:48: 6 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D88937B400 for ; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 10:48:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from directvinternet.com (dsl-65-185-140-165.telocity.com [65.185.140.165]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D0B543E6E for ; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 10:48:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nwestfal@directvinternet.com) Received: from Tolstoy.home.lan (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by directvinternet.com (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g85Hm2Gd053962; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 10:48:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from nwestfal@directvinternet.com) Received: from localhost (nwestfal@localhost) by Tolstoy.home.lan (8.12.5/8.12.5/Submit) with ESMTP id g85Hm1tK053955; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 10:48:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: Tolstoy.home.lan: nwestfal owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 10:48:01 -0700 (PDT) From: "Neal E. Westfall" X-X-Sender: nwestfal@Tolstoy.home.lan To: Dave Hayes Cc: Terry Lambert , Subject: Re: Why did evolution fail? In-Reply-To: <200209050702.g8572S190003@hokkshideh2.jetcafe.org> Message-ID: <20020905104347.W52452-100000@Tolstoy.home.lan> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, Dave Hayes wrote: > >> > Basically, its not that "God" cannot be rationally proven as much as > >> > the fact that without God, nothing could be proven at all. Hence, > >> > God is proven from the impossibility of the contrary. It is > >> > unreasonable to reject that which is the foundation for everything > >> > else. > >> > >> The fact that a proof either way is necessary, and takes precedence > >> over the obvious and observable, is how Mankind got -into- this mess in > >> the first place. ;) > > > > I never said that proof was *necessary*, at least not from a logical > > standpoint. But given that man is in intellectual darkness and > > attempts to "suppress the truth in unrighteousness" it becomes > > necessary to remove self-imposed stumbling blocks that prevent him > > from seeing the truth. ;-) > > This implies that man can see the stumbling blocks in order to remove > them. Typically the first thing that has to be done is to teach man > a course in sight, before man can see the stumbling blocks man has to > remove. I wasn't saying that a blind man could see the stumbling blocks. I was suggesting that a non-blind person could remove them. Of course, he's still blind, but at least he won't be tripping all over the place. 8-) Sight can only be granted by God. Neal To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message