From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 30 18:04:09 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EECF316A424 for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2005 18:04:08 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from takeo@ss.jip.co.jp) Received: from mail03.toshima.ne.jp (mail03.toshima.ne.jp [202.140.193.50]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 1A20743D7B for ; Wed, 30 Nov 2005 18:03:52 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from takeo@ss.jip.co.jp) Received: (qmail 28940 invoked by uid 0); 1 Dec 2005 03:03:49 +0900 Received: from pix02.toshima.ne.jp (HELO emifuku.ss.jip.co.jp) (202.140.192.130) by t.toshima.ne.jp with SMTP; 1 Dec 2005 03:03:49 +0900 From: HashimotoTakeo@mac.com (Takeo Hashimoto) To: jhb@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 30 Nov 2005 10:49:02 -0500". <200511301049.03461.jhb@freebsd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Mailer: mnews [version 1.22PL7] 2003-09/29(Mon) Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2005 03:03:49 +0900 Message-ID: <051201030349.M0401337@emifuku.ss.jip.co.jp> Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, HashimotoTakeo@mac.com Subject: Re: advocacy/89731: TOO MANY SPAMs on jp.freebsd.org's mailing list X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: HashimotoTakeo@mac.com List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2005 18:04:09 -0000 Mr.Baldwin, thanks for your guidance. On Thu 01 Dec 2005 00:49 JST, John Baldwin wrote: >> >On Wednesday 30 November 2005 01:07 am, Takeo Hashimoto wrote: >> >> Currently every subscriber has to spend their time >> >> wading through the spam to pick up the ones which are not spam. >> >> (Of course it is dissipation of resources.) >> > >> >Yes, I use spamassassin personally. Also, I should note that >> > FreeBSD.org's mail server employs some aggressive spam filtering which >> > stops a lot of it from showing up on FreeBSD lists. Perhaps the jp folks >> > could setup some spam filtering on their mail server as well to cut down >> > on the load. Note that only a couple of FreeBSD.org lists are >> > restrict_post, most are open. >> >> FreeBSD.org lists may be greater than jp's, but you said to me: >> > Also, I should note that >> > FreeBSD.org's mail server employs some aggressive spam filtering which >> > stops a lot of it from showing up on FreeBSD lists. >> >> it is very good. I'm very grad to hear that. >> we all want to hear same explanation from jp admins. >> >> There is no transparency on jp.FreeBSD.org, >> so we feel no democracy and admins dogma. > >Yes, but with volunteer projects you as a user can't just go mandate that the >people doing the work go spend their time doing X. FreeBSD isn't that much >of a democracy either. Granted, core members are elected, but only by >developers, not by users. This is something of a common theme in the Open >Source world in that the people who do the work get to make decisions. >FreeBSD.org also has very little oversight of xx.FreeBSD.org, those entities >are fairly autonomous. Have you tried talking to the jp.FreeBSD.org admins >directly? Have you volunteered to help out with doing some of the work if >so? If you can't get them to be responsive, then you can also take action by >setting up your own mailing lists with the policies that you wish to use. If >users end up preferring your lists then at some point your list may supersede >the current list at jp.FreeBSD.org. # you're breakin' my heart. :( >Have you tried talking to the jp.FreeBSD.org admins directly? OK now I know that it was my mistake that I had started from send-PR. I had to start contacting to jp admins. # yes, I sent some mail to them an hour ago. >Have you volunteered to help out with doing some of the work if so? actually not yet. I want to do so, as I am just a poor user, I am not a developer, but I want to spend my time to make it better. am I wrong again? >If you can't get them to be responsive, then you can also take action by >setting up your own mailing lists with the policies that you wish to use. I don't want fork. I think that if I (and most jp.FreeBSD.org list user) can't get them to be responsive, there should be some re-election to disclose the dicision making process even if mobocracy. am I wrong again? >> I think we are same on this point: >> "how to make it easy for new people to get started with FreeBSD?" >> >> but the conclusion is different. You say "open the door (with gatekeeper)" >> I say "close the door until you examine the newcomer is a human". >> >> I think that it is policy problem, so jp admins need to have public >> hearing. Will this PR cause their action? I hope. > >Well, I'm not sure any of the jp guys are reading this exchange, so I don't >know if it will result in any action or not. The PR database really isn't >suited well for this type of request either. If you haven't talked to the jp >folks directly, then you should do that first (but not the caveats I >mentioned earlier). If you have talked to the jp folks and are unhappy with >their response, you can try to bring the issue to core@. However, if you are >unable to convince the jp admins to make a change, your best bet may be to >work on setting up your own alternative list. OK, then, this PR was wrong topic. my last task of this PR is only one thing: - post a summary ...am I wrong again? :) anyway, I will keep act to jp admins. thanks. #----------------------------------------------------------# # Takeo Hashimoto. It's impossible, ...but doable. # #----------------------------------------------------------#