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Date:      Sat, 30 Dec 95 00:17 WET
From:      uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org (Frank Durda IV)
To:        hackers@freebsd.org
Cc:        uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org
Subject:   X for install (was: Re: syscons driver)
Message-ID:  <m0tVubI-000CnFC@nemesis.lonestar.org>

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[27]Come on guys, why is it that you dont get it that there are LOADS of
[27]users out there that either don't have the HW or simply dont want to
[27]run X for various reasons (I'm not one of them I use X :) :) )

I agree.  If the installation requires X, you can also kiss goodbye to
all those people with 5Meg and 4Meg systems who are able to install now.
They'll just pop over to Linux or SCO or whatever that doesn't have
those memory requirements, and will come up in the simple hardware
they have. 

I've got two laptops that simply cannot have more memory (the designers
didn't allow for PCMCIA RAM and the maker has since gone out of business
so you can't get the proprietary RAM expansion modules), so X is out.
Always has been out because the trackball isn't PS/2 compatible, so
you have to use the nice DOS TSR to get mouse support.

In fact one of these laptops can't run 2.1 but can run 1.1.5.1 because it
has 3.999Meg of memory, and that isn't enough!  The other has 4.6 Meg
(I can't explain that size), and it will work, but not if we add X to the
formula.

I've got FreeBSD machines in various facilities, two or three in a rack
doing networking, news and mail.  None of these systems has a mouse, they
don't need one.  Must I also buy a mouse and make space to use one for all
these machines that I only log-into to shutdown or make a dump, and
run X during the install but at no other time?   I don't get it.

Oh, and these machines just happen to have Mach 64 video in them
(it was on the MLB), but the cheapest SVGA monitors are attached.
Only the most basic video modes the Mach 64 can generate will work
with these monitors.  How many additional questions must we add
to the installation to convey this information?  All the questions
currently asked in the X install?  No thanks.


Someone also said we don't have to worry about getting X into the 
boot floppy because we will have a CD-ROM there and can load it
as soon as the kernel is up.  What if you installing via a network
connection or serial port?  You have to answer an awful lot of questions
in the install process BEFORE the network link is even established.
Then you are proposing to download X so that you can run it and then do the
install?  Uh, and what did all that just buy us?  "Eyes" in the corner while
the binaries are downloading?   We've already had to answer all the key
questions of how the install is to be done, and even if you rearranged
them so that module selection follows media selection, we are only talking
about a few screens of listboxes of which modules you can select, hardly
GUI material.

Sorry, but "I don't see any Incredible Advantage here." - Zork

					Frank Durda IV
					uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org




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