From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Dec 6 6:42:14 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ussenterprise.ufp.org (ussenterprise.ufp.org [208.185.30.210]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A003B37B416 for ; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 06:42:10 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bicknell@localhost) by ussenterprise.ufp.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) id fB6Eg9v60646; Thu, 6 Dec 2001 09:42:09 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bicknell) Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 09:42:09 -0500 From: Leo Bicknell To: Terry Lambert Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Can TCP changes be put in RELENG_4? Message-ID: <20011206094209.A60489@ussenterprise.ufp.org> Mail-Followup-To: Terry Lambert , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20011205085750.I28101-100000@coredump.scriptkiddie.org> <200112052142.fB5LgVM53167@apollo.backplane.com> <3C0EF953.54CF24DB@mindspring.com> <3C0F0803.7010506@viasoft.com.cn> <3C0F0D02.8AEA9E48@mindspring.com> <20011206081059.A58740@ussenterprise.ufp.org> <3C0F7F63.90B753F3@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3C0F7F63.90B753F3@mindspring.com>; from tlambert2@mindspring.com on Thu, Dec 06, 2001 at 06:23:31AM -0800 Organization: United Federation of Planets Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Dec 06, 2001 at 06:23:31AM -0800, Terry Lambert wrote: > > I'd suggest our target should be a P-III 600 with around 256M of > > RAM as what Generic should be tuned for.... > > Can't. The static allocations for that much assumed RAM would > result in the machine not booting, with the amount of RAM for > the page tables alone ~1/4M. By default, the 120M KVA space > mappings are arguably overlarge for small memory machines. Would result in what machines not booting? As long as a 64M PC can boot (even if it has only 10 Meg free for user apps) that's ok in my book. If we're still trying to boot on 4, 8, or 16 meg machines that's just dumb. As I've said before, there are two types of FreeBSD users. There are "users", who want something to replace windows and who really like the Linux distro's with KDE and all that. These people are unlikely to build a kernel, and as time goes by are even less likely to know what a kernel is. They are also likely to have a < 3 year old PC, probably that they are dual booting. Linux recognized this, and targest this sort of hardware out-of-the-box. The second type of user is someone like you, or me, or most of the people on this list. They will build a custom kernel no matter how appropriate the default settings. They will tune things for odd application boxes, like IRC and News servers and the like. The defaults are virtually irrevelant for these people, provided sysinstall can finish. As far as I'm concerned any machine with < 64M these days falls into the second catagory, where someone should have to futz with it to make it work. When 256M DIMMs are $18 we need to get with the program. This is one area where Microsoft got it right. Worrying about the hardware isn't worth your time. It will continue to grow at moores law, making the bloat unimportant. Target what's being sold now, as if you target last years computers by the time your OS is on them next year they will be retired. -- Leo Bicknell - bicknell@ufp.org - CCIE 3440 PGP keys at http://www.ufp.org/~bicknell/ Read TMBG List - tmbg-list-request@tmbg.org, www.tmbg.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message