From nobody Mon Oct 6 22:15:44 2025 X-Original-To: current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4cgYW76Y2qz6BgcZ; Mon, 06 Oct 2025 22:15:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from omta004.cacentral1.a.cloudfilter.net (omta002.cacentral1.a.cloudfilter.net [3.97.99.33]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4cgYW7161xz3bKy; Mon, 06 Oct 2025 22:15:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=permerror reason="p tag has invalid value: quarantine rua=mailto:p[ostmaster@cschubert.com" header.from=cschubert.com (policy=permerror); spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of cy.schubert@cschubert.com designates 3.97.99.33 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=cy.schubert@cschubert.com Received: from shw-obgw-4002a.ext.cloudfilter.net ([10.228.9.250]) by cmsmtp with ESMTPS id 5r50vUGqnPzKy5tUgvs0jZ; Mon, 06 Oct 2025 22:15:46 +0000 Received: from spqr.komquats.com ([70.66.136.217]) by cmsmtp with ESMTPSA id 5tUevh8YKmnb85tUfvHAlc; Mon, 06 Oct 2025 22:15:46 +0000 X-Auth-User: cschuber X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.4 cv=GI+rEfNK c=1 sm=1 tr=0 ts=68e43f92 a=h7br+8Ma+Xn9xscxy5znUg==:117 a=h7br+8Ma+Xn9xscxy5znUg==:17 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=x6icFKpwvdMA:10 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=EkcXrb_YAAAA:8 a=Rk-M77FJAAAA:8 a=YxBL1-UpAAAA:8 a=mAFXN7GLlt23UC9fauIA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=LK5xJRSDVpKd5WXXoEvA:22 a=ef1k35tKgZpiIrJ2aQ5N:22 a=Ia-lj3WSrqcvXOmTRaiG:22 Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (slippy.cwsent.com [10.1.1.91]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89E63C3; Mon, 06 Oct 2025 15:15:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by slippy.cwsent.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 613E19E; Mon, 06 Oct 2025 15:15:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.9.0 11/07/2018 with nmh-1.8+dev Reply-to: Cy Schubert From: Cy Schubert X-os: FreeBSD X-Sender: cy@cwsent.com X-URL: http://www.cschubert.com/ To: stable@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org, cperciva@freebsd.org Subject: Re: disallowing 'make installworld' with pkgbase In-reply-to: References: Comments: In-reply-to Lexi Winter message dated "Mon, 06 Oct 2025 03:03:17 +0100." List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2025 15:15:44 -0700 Message-Id: <20251006221544.613E19E@slippy.cwsent.com> X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4xfPDsjZbQYWXYCdyQUIGvDsZoKtTqr9GRIx13Sdu1lmuqdbkE1zatzwrpmmkiGGNDZSOeq3+mchkKoB8R3SKUASLc3sy1KVs7APEfQOO9h8lQIPW/QFND U63xafvo1/kGKI+0uUC02Xh8Y5YWwUi4xa2uWHFJUfZBbh23dfNXYp+YWyWRSW6RnedXuBXo6qlJw403mMOL99v3+J1aJWZCS5Jg7VbpWmpkYUPEQsVU3tjN fK/5vToKWZwnOT5G2XwAEVdFpLJojwauBYs8a0hLWxs= X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.99 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.98)[-0.979]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.88)[-0.876]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.83)[-0.830]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_EXCELLENT(-0.40)[3.97.99.33:from]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:3.97.99.32/31]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[3.97.99.33:from]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16509, ipnet:3.96.0.0/15, country:US]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; DMARC_BAD_POLICY(0.00)[cschubert.com : p tag has invalid value: quarantine rua=mailto:p[ostmaster@cschubert.com]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[current@freebsd.org,stable@freebsd.org]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4cgYW7161xz3bKy In message , Lexi Winter writes: > > --E6aI5jKH+dHsJ3L/ > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Disposition: inline > > hello, > > in 15.0 we will ship pkgbase as an alternative to the dist sets for base > system installation. pkgbase is entirely optional and for at least 15.0, > we will continue to support dist set installation with freebsd-update. > > the traditional source update method, using make buildworld installworld, > will be supported indefinitely and there are no plans to remove this even > after dist sets and freebsd-update are dropped. > > however, while both update methods will be supported individually, they > cannot be used together, i.e., if you installed the system with pkgbase, > you should not attempt to update it using "make installworld" because > this will cause the installed system to become out of sync with the > pkg(8) database. > > instead, you have two options: update with "make buildworld packages" > and pkg-upgrade(8), or depkgbasify the system and then update using > make installworld as usual. either of those options is fully supported, > but you have to choose one of them to avoid breaking your system later. > > (the procedure to "depkgbasify the system" is not entirely clear yet, > but we will need something like this at least for 16.0, so there will > be some way to do that.) > > all of this preamble is to be as clear as possible that the review i'm > about to link is *not* about removing support for 'make installworld' > (we aren't going to do that) and does not prevent you from doing anything > you currently do. with that in mind, i would like to land this for 15.0: > > "Makefile: Don't allow install{world,kernel} with pkgbase" > https://reviews.freebsd.org/D52879 > > the point of this change is to avoid the situation where a user installs > 15.0 with pkgbase, then tries to upgrade using 'make installworld' out > of habit, not realising that this will break their system. users who > are really sure they want to do this still can using DESTDIR=/, and > users who don't use pkgbase are completely unaffected by this change. > > so, if anyone has an objection to this change, please say so. How would one go about installing a new system from ISO. Then proceed to maintain it using installworld if the only supported new install is pkgbase? Second question: How would one go about converting an existing system to pkgbase? -- Cheers, Cy Schubert FreeBSD UNIX: Web: https://FreeBSD.org NTP: Web: https://nwtime.org e**(i*pi)+1=0