From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jun 9 00:44:46 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E236C1065676 for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2010 00:44:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from perrin@apotheon.com) Received: from cpoproxy1-pub.bluehost.com (cpoproxy1-pub.bluehost.com [69.89.21.11]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B10B48FC0C for ; Wed, 9 Jun 2010 00:44:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 32250 invoked by uid 0); 9 Jun 2010 00:44:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO box543.bluehost.com) (74.220.219.143) by cpoproxy1.bluehost.com with SMTP; 9 Jun 2010 00:44:46 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=apotheon.com; h=Date:From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Mail-Followup-To:References:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Content-Disposition:In-Reply-To:User-Agent:X-Identified-User; b=CWmiF2O78rxeUYjEL7qNniIHYLm5T6B103zdmpQjPcPC3oaB6JFr/+Ypuktp4zZ3znBF2U+jU7y70aJXINuyhZoKZ7TeKMg1eHdmHFHPjgGZVBZZV1WbIWhO7P6ukoek; Received: from c-24-8-180-234.hsd1.co.comcast.net ([24.8.180.234] helo=kukaburra.hydra) by box543.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OM9PR-000292-0d for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Tue, 08 Jun 2010 18:44:46 -0600 Received: by kukaburra.hydra (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Tue, 08 Jun 2010 18:44:17 -0600 Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2010 18:44:17 -0600 From: Chad Perrin To: FreeBSD Questions Message-ID: <20100609004417.GC37528@guilt.hydra> Mail-Followup-To: FreeBSD Questions References: <20100606203416.GF46089@libertas.local.camdensoftware.com> <20100607035650.GA29350@guilt.hydra> <20100607163456.GB2102@libertas.local.camdensoftware.com> <20100608042804.GB33797@guilt.hydra> <20100608155540.2059f852.freebsd@edvax.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="0lnxQi9hkpPO77W3" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20100608155540.2059f852.freebsd@edvax.de> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Identified-User: {2737:box543.bluehost.com:apotheon:apotheon.org} {sentby:smtp auth 24.8.180.234 authed with ren@apotheon.org} Subject: Re: office apps X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2010 00:44:47 -0000 --0lnxQi9hkpPO77W3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Jun 08, 2010 at 03:55:40PM +0200, Polytropon wrote: > On Mon, 7 Jun 2010 22:28:04 -0600, Chad Perrin wrot= e: > > I've never had a client who wouldn't take either PDF or plain text.=20 >=20 > And five minutes later, they call you by phone and ask how they can > edit the PDF file... :-) Hah. Good point. =2E . . though in cases where they'll take PDF, it's usually for something like an invoice, so this doesn't come up much in practice. >=20 > Just a friendly sidenote: >=20 > > On > > the other hand, clients who prefer Word DOC(X) but will take plain text > > if they "must" have a tendency to immediately open it in Word, save as > > DOC(X), then send the friggin' thing back to me in that format after > > making some changes. >=20 > You are aware that there is not "the" DOC format? The many > various "Word" programs use slightly different formats, and > rendering a document heavily depends on the current environment > "Word" is running in, e. g. which fonts are installed, even > which printer is installed - all this can have influence on > how the document is opened. Yeah, I'm fully aware. That's why I said DOC(X) -- because it's DOC (any version) or DOCX. It's easier to say DOC(X) than "some variation of DOC or DOCX". >=20 > Furthermore, the DOCX format isn't really an open format. It > *claims* to be standardized, but it's not; even MICROS~1 didn't > implement it properly, and there are still blobs inside the > XML, which can lead to problems. I think Microsoft's mis-implementation (according to the "standard") was quite intentional. >=20 > There are many problems you can encounter in import/export > settings. So the only way to be sure is to use a standardized > format. My preference is plaintext. It doesn't get much more "standard" than that. >=20 > I've worked in a setting where interoperability was the main > goal, because there were BSD, Linux, Solaris, Mac OS X and > even "Windows" machines, and our choice was OpenOffice, which > worked excellently across the platforms. It wouldn't have been > possible with MICROS~1 binary garbage in between. :-) OpenOffice.org is a heinous snarl of cat hair and feces, from my perspective. It's little better than MS Office, frankly. Your mileage obviously varies. >=20 >=20 >=20 > > I keep hoping the day will come when people who prefer MS Word are the > > rarity, rather than me being the odd man out. >=20 > It *will* happen, just consider the costs and the growing > uncomfortability of those programs (not counting those who > regularly use pirated copies to have "the same pictures at > home" as they know them from work). :-) Actually, "pirating" is one of the main reasons MS Office is the dominant office suite in general use -- just as it is with MS Windows, too. There's not as much reason to switch to something free when the Microsoft option is "free" too. This might seem like kind of a foreign concept to many users of open source software, but I've discovered that even when they don't *respect* copyright law, open source software users and developers tend to *follow* copyright law a lot more diligently than the general run of computer-using humanity. =46rom what I've seen, people who use nothing but Microsoft, Adobe, and similar relentlessly closed-source consumer software are much more likely to think *nothing* of downloading cracked versions of commercial software than open source software users. That includes people like me, who simply don't use "pirated" software and believe that copyright law as a whole is a suppurating pustule on the face of modern civilization. Then, of course, if I get into a discussion of the ethicality of copyright law with one of those hypocrites, he almost invariably ends up accusing me of rejecting the ethicality of copyright law for no deeper reason other than trying to justify "stealing". Ironic -- don't you think? I'm a bit off-topic. Here's the on-topic: I wish I'd find a foolproof, simple, transparent way for me to see and edit well-formatted plain text no matter what nonsense bloated featuritis infected office suite anyone else wanted to use. --=20 Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] --0lnxQi9hkpPO77W3 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.14 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAkwO4+EACgkQ9mn/Pj01uKXStACg9jO32Mju3eLU3n42XQPxrTuG zfcAoI+aQUHEtFGztF488lwSSbH2b2wU =ilA3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --0lnxQi9hkpPO77W3--