From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Apr 13 17:34:17 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: current@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [8.8.178.115]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D015681; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 17:34:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from glebius@FreeBSD.org) Received: from cell.glebius.int.ru (glebius.int.ru [81.19.69.10]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF1CCD2A; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 17:34:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from cell.glebius.int.ru (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cell.glebius.int.ru (8.14.6/8.14.6) with ESMTP id r3DHY7HU083536; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 21:34:07 +0400 (MSK) (envelope-from glebius@FreeBSD.org) Received: (from glebius@localhost) by cell.glebius.int.ru (8.14.6/8.14.6/Submit) id r3DHY7v0083535; Sat, 13 Apr 2013 21:34:07 +0400 (MSK) (envelope-from glebius@FreeBSD.org) X-Authentication-Warning: cell.glebius.int.ru: glebius set sender to glebius@FreeBSD.org using -f Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2013 21:34:07 +0400 From: Gleb Smirnoff To: Scott Long Subject: Re: ipfilter(4) needs maintainer Message-ID: <20130413173407.GY76816@glebius.int.ru> References: <20130411201805.GD76816@FreeBSD.org> <7D8ACD5C-821D-4505-82E4-02267A7BA4F8@FreeBSD.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Cc: Rui Paulo , current@FreeBSD.org, net@FreeBSD.org X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2013 17:34:17 -0000 Scott, On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 11:31:09PM -0600, Scott Long wrote: S> One thing that FreeBSD is bad about (and this really applies to many open source projects) when deprecating something is that the developer and release engineering groups rarely provide adequate, if any, tools to help users transition and cope with the deprecation. The fear of deprecation can be largely overcome by giving these users a clear and comprehensive path forward. Just announcing "ipfilter is going away. EOM" is inadequate and leads to completely justified complaints from users. S> S> So with that said, would it be possible to write some tutorials on how to migrate an ipfilter installation to pf? Maybe some mechanical syntax docs accompanied by a few case studies? Is it possible for a script to automate some of the common mechanical changes? Also essential is a clear document on what goes away with ipfilter and what is gained with pf. Once those tools are written, I suggest announcing that ipfilter is available but deprecated/unsupported in FreeBSD 10, and will be removed from FreeBSD 11. Certain people will still pitch a fit about it departing, but if the tools are there to help the common users, you'll be successful in winning mindshare and general support. The task to write a migration guide is already a task for maintainer, and the thread is to search one. If lack of migration guide doesn't allow us to remove in 10.x cycle, I doubt the guide will appear in 11.x cycle, 12.x, etc. So we will live with ipfilter forever. What I can do, is to resend email to the stable@ list. Also, I can add the deprecation WARNING to stable/9 unless we find maintainer prior to 9.2 branching. -- Totus tuus, Glebius.