From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun Jul 11 19:12:07 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F4A766D0B1 for ; Sun, 11 Jul 2021 19:12:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from m.e.sanliturk@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wm1-x330.google.com (mail-wm1-x330.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::330]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4GNGjf33lDz4q2Y for ; Sun, 11 Jul 2021 19:12:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from m.e.sanliturk@gmail.com) Received: by mail-wm1-x330.google.com with SMTP id g12so1995268wme.2 for ; Sun, 11 Jul 2021 12:12:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=2waNpVQm51wPHJnMZwa3sf2ncqQdAEULX48Q2vgim+I=; b=ZpF+L5cULvdn/9yBoO/2xnVgn/UzvwyWIjXMz6Dzc8qHGp1M7boSoo24e5YAevVSMx 8Fn4FrqLAa+qQCnV/rfVxT5k6Scg/kT8HMForx8Z7ACCXgNyxcr8Sy+UUh+4AqsA7aHH WiankyDnP1xBeFWGRDcRf5Nxa64n9Nj2AMBZ3nXM4Fv7/+eR/uVS5YzmxsaLq7y8VuVe CrKD/4VVNJX0WlxEcyeg7pOIcx86N5UwnP9cotApTzuupv4Zn8w89YtMseIAacomfJDD LjDPM558F3UIw6UrkNaWBKAmOPWJ/qLaT9l0OKuiZJsg82x67Djbq7KOpCdBxK5efDfy XH1Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=2waNpVQm51wPHJnMZwa3sf2ncqQdAEULX48Q2vgim+I=; b=Kj1MIuw88UKNk8Fn/CeMSR4EESC8CyO5XMZG/oc0cHGQ2k05FLyRk/FyW22HGalcZr YRdeP4iqCDIr+3rXfYtMlDknfM1zL2sa+977SfjzAQkRb9bMDJbwZr3aBVGyy8I+dJTd efezCex/aSwR10lyBsChSauQqYAHCoDldYu7gJYoiJYa3UlbhU78h3yF5rxu41+pEpni P2v+SQphD2DNF1VQJhEP4+fMxASuKdk9jUed23dGlzi2Jag+vQli3fqUPiyMRDFCrn6d LrLn1gnxZrMArT314t/AUeuf5D5EIA71T4O1s4duE0DSVz9lPZDNHoW/su7XlhFkbv3j dt9A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM53372wDFQTs5WkCbaCkqmJwhC+x4Jbv21/VdslbX3dY71g62s/iK oEMuwnxQTH7RPg0zZ6gx195G6uFOQLV7oBFfJ/E= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyZxoBZQ9pskDbhoM/GvBKFOB+9gCr5gAJu/rp2DjeiZr3yRrpZ6fbD6BCO/tfga2zeWzP8SRivILgEtRqnP10= X-Received: by 2002:a1c:c911:: with SMTP id f17mr51719182wmb.60.1626030724503; Sun, 11 Jul 2021 12:12:04 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Mehmet Erol Sanliturk Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2021 22:11:26 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Goodbye To: Paul Procacci Cc: David Raver , FreeBSD Questions X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4GNGjf33lDz4q2Y X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=ZpF+L5cU; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of mesanliturk@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::330 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=mesanliturk@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.99 / 15.00]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::330:from]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.990]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::330:from:127.0.2.255]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::330:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[gmail.com,freebsd.org] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.34 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2021 19:12:07 -0000 On Sun, Jul 11, 2021 at 7:54 PM Paul Procacci wrote: > It's okay to fail and blame your failure on your lack of abilities. No one > here will hold that against you. > > FreeBSD is superior to most others in many many ways. > Surely it has some warts, but they are far and few between. > > I've been saying this for 3 decades now and I continue to say it. FreeBSD > is an administrators' OS at heart. > Whether true or not at this point in time is mostly irrelevant to me only > that I still say it. > > YOU failed to conquer it; that's no one else's fault but your own. > > ~Paul > > > I am reading these messages to learn very good ideas and I am pleased to read them . My opinions are "good" plus some "bad" ones . My computing adventure started in 1965 when I was an elementary teacher in a village in Turkey at the age of 18 . In those days their name was "electronic brain" in the field of mathematics "priests" meaning people having very high IQs . I have decided to attend a university but with English language teaching . In Turkey they were Middle East Technical University belonging to the State and Robert College ( a private and ex[ensive one ) . In 1970 at the METU I learned Fortran with my efforts and then I have continued . I have started with FreeBSD 2.x . Since it was unusable , I have waited up to 7.x . I have started to use it upto 9.0 ( still a few hard disk are containing them with a server staying unused , because it could not be possible to run them due to unacceptable slow execution . It could not be possible to find a solution to remedy this problem . I have switched to ( Linux ) Mandriva . Some time later Mndrive has died and I have switched Fedora and I am now using it continuously on all my computers including a NFS server . What is the problem with FreeBSD ? There is no problem with FreeBSD . The problem is it requires an MSc degree ( as exaggerated ) in "How to use FreeBSD" . Always , approximately many persons are saying that use of FreeBSD requires "expertise" to use it . In that case the problem is how to acquire that expertise . If memory of a person is not very sharp , it is necessary to use a thick binder of flash cards about how to install and "adjust" parameters to be able to use it . When KDE is used , it is possible ( perhaps easy ) to use peripherals like in Linux or Windows : No CD , DVD record , no USB stick usage , etc. , if you do not know how to use them through your expertise . Documentation is very excellent , but with a "SINGLE" Handbook or Manuals attempting to cover ALL of the active versions , which is not possible to represent them correctly . I have suggested that "Please make Handbook and Manuals ( these may be ) a part of sources and and a version branched continue to improve Handbook about that version . I think that this idea is not supported . This common Handbook contains many errors due to not being updated correctly with respect to versions ( I say that doing this in that way makes it extremely difficult ) . ( I want to say that my PhD is about "A Multi-Media Information Management System . The more correct name would be... Knowledge ... , but the system is able to design , manage ( Data , Information , Knowledge ), their average may be considered Information ... ) If FreeBSD does not change it policy to move toward "average" ( in the sense of "not expert" ) user level , for me , its future will be difficult because if the user base is small it will likely not many people will support it because , especially commercial companies will not be able to recover expenses about supporting the FreeBSD , meaning their efforts will be on the "loss" side ( excluding exceptions ) . I have opened many bug reports many years before . To my knowledge at least many of them have been resolved . At present I am a subscriber of many mailing lists of FreeBSD and continuously I am reading them . My primary aim is to take a copy of FreeBSD and start from scratch to develop a new one with a very different development structure to improve it because I need such an operating system to support my knowledge base design and management system . The current structure and development system is not able to support it . The best operating system seems to be FreeBSD , if it is not , the next one is DragonFly BSD . Perhaps the other BSD variants are also good , I do not know in detail . Thank you to all of the developers and users of FreeBSD , and my best wishes are for you in this CoVid-19 pandemic and all other days , forever . Mehmet Erol Sanliturk > On Sat, Jul 10, 2021, 1:58 PM David Raver wrote: > > > To Whom It May Concern: > > > > This is not merely a question, it's mostly a complaint. Let me explain. > > > > Some time ago I started a (c++) project which I wanted to make as general > > (in an OS sense) as possible. > > Meaning: the same source (with as little of ifdefs as possible) should > > compile, link and run on as many operating systems as possible. > > > > So... out of the BSD family I chose FreeBSD as I'd read/heard that it had > > been... well... the best. > > > > I installed it into a VirtualBox. Can't remember how, but it was what a > > developer needed: a graphical environment, everything easily accessible. > As > > it should be. > > > > Then the project was put aside for quite some time until a couple of > months > > ago when it's extensive generalization was brought to a stage when it > > worked on Linux, MacOS and Windows, it's primary systems. > > > > So, I fired a VirtualBox up again meaning to try to build it on FreeBSD. > > Sadly it didn't work. Not that it didn't compile. It did. The linker > > failed, though. > > Researching why, I came to a conclusion that it's version didn't support > > what I'd needed. OK, I said, an upgrade should fix that. > > Not being small-time I decided to not only upgrade the c++ (g++) > > development platform, but rather the whole operating system. I looked up > > (on Google) how to do it and... I did it. I mean I started the upgrade. > > > > Pay attention now because here it's where it all starts: the upgrade > failed > > in such a way that not only the c++ development platform was unusable, > but > > the OS refused to boot. All I'd seen had been a black screen. > > > > Steam started to blow out of my ears, but I still kept it together. OK, I > > said, maybe the upgrade wasn't a good decision anyway. > > Let's start from scratch and install the latest version (13) which will > > automatically solve all of the problems. > > Fired up a VirtualBox, created a new machine using the downloaded ( > > https://www.freebsd.org/where/) file. Booted up with the option 1 > > (multiple > > users, as it should be the usual case, right?). > > Instead of the expected GUI and some dialogs creating the user account I > > was met with the console demanding username and password from me. What?!? > > The first thing that went through my mind was that if this had been the > > case with a certain Microsoft's operating system, it surely wouldn't have > > had the market share it has today. > > > > After a little research (man, I love the small print!) on your page I > came > > up with the account data and logged in. OK, I said, this isn't going to > do. > > I need a GUI and some developer tools. Let's install that. > > But, the OS said, you can't do that unless you're a superuser. No > problem. > > Tried sudo as I'm used to from Linux. Nope. Tried su. It said: "Sorry". > > What?!? > > Google helped again: in order to do that one must choose option 2 while > > booting. Fsck!?! Obviously one must have a BSD degree to use a computer. > > OK, after a restart (and successful su) I googled about installing a GUI > > (KDE to be exact). Being unpleasantly surprised that, instead of a > > oneliner, one has to buy a new keyboard with an extended life expectancy > in > > order to type an equivalent of Tolstoy's War and Peace. > > Man, how hard is it to put something in a shell script?!? > > > > Before embarking on such an enterprise, I read some more small print and > > found out that, before that, one has to install X (probably demanding > > another fresh keyboard). And before that one has to install something > else > > still. > > Can't remember what because I shut the OS down and hit a couple of dels > > removing everything even remotely related to FreeBSD from my computer. > > > > So, before yous geniuses decide to make an OS even remotely usable so > that > > an average developer doesn't need to have a doctorate of General BSDvity > > Theory in order to use it, it's Goodby from me Argentina. > > > > D. > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > > freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >