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Date:      Mon, 02 Apr 2001 21:39:21 -0700
From:      Peter Wemm <peter@netplex.com.au>
To:        Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.com>
Cc:        Kirk Strauser <kirk@strauser.com>, freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: My Vinum heart attack 
Message-ID:  <200104030439.f334dLh17759@mobile.wemm.org>
In-Reply-To: <20010403093947.K25226@wantadilla.lemis.com> 

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Greg Lehey wrote:
> On Monday,  2 April 2001 at  8:28:38 -0500, Kirk Strauser wrote:
> >
> > At 2001-04-02T13:12:37Z, Dag-Erling Smorgrav <des@ofug.org> writes:
> >
> >> There is no critical information in /dev/vinum. The information there can
> >> easily be recreated by vinum(8) from the configuration information stored
> >> on the disks themselves.
> >
> > I wasn't too sure at the time which information was canonical - the copy in
> > /dev/vinum, or the on-disk copy - so I wanted to be darn sure not to lose
> > more than I needed to.
> >
> > Your point that it is easily recreated is true, given that vinum works at
> > all in a particular situation.  Mine didn't.  I know why it didn't, and I
> > managed to work through it without loss, but it certainly got my attention
> > at the time.
> >
> > BTW, my note was much more a warning to others to pay attention to these
> > things than a complaint.  Vinum is a complicated thing, and you have to be
> > willing to rise to the occasion if you want to use it, and I'm comfortable
> > with that.
> 
> The real issue here is that you seemed to think it OK to update your
> kernel and not update userland.  Experienced people will say "that's a
> no-no", but somehow you were able to get that impression.  I'm still
> planning to investigate how this could happen.

This is made far far worse by pushing part of the kernel out into the
userland (ie: vinum.ko).   This is why I still tell people regularly that
that get burned bu this that they should be using 'device vinum' and 
'options VINUM_DEBUG' to match the userland defaults.  I usually get into
the habit of keeping several aged instances of /sbin/vinum.* because the
vinum kernel<->userland ABI is so extremely fragile.

In -current the dynamics are a little different.  By default, the vinum
module is installed with a 'make install' of the kernel, so you usually get
the same results as when you have it compiled into the kernel.  However,
the user-kernel interface is far more broken because it has things like
'struct mtx' embedded inside the ioctl interfaces.. :-(  This changes
often, and vinum breaks each and every time.

Cheers,
-Peter
--
Peter Wemm - peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com; peter@netplex.com.au
"All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5


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