From owner-freebsd-fs@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Apr 8 05:49:25 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7A644FD4; Wed, 8 Apr 2015 05:49:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-ie0-x235.google.com (mail-ie0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47F70C4A; Wed, 8 Apr 2015 05:49:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: by iebrs15 with SMTP id rs15so65795804ieb.3; Tue, 07 Apr 2015 22:49:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=9K+RY+DXlRLDtVWHQquUzdUyNmFntAff8DL0JaprQcQ=; b=FdoHFzxF+Nuo9g4Fa9mvQj/7av/8zIYoRTcvwL9FHayw+5EqJ5qKQuoIVHOQonHQ51 mRtkHpjAZaPL8EBLKFZS55qKpAzWl7Wx42DX2WEyAmfalTLmqK5dLWmnbqUI24YJ7hLN 5TXwcBsDv6UCJG4TXWZR1dPjt0AB1UJGU0ZHkpOt/A0z25D/6jC5+7BPdl8S+cRDRm1O datCMazYaceA+MX1EJ1e104IZtdN1Kjws8RWS59qjSdCyzRQOGmJTYIsP7bqbupo6e9a EKCt1w4t2z79OzB2Uwm4rIzWB+DmJYC99itEd5Ba8M66OM2Fowrh3nSEvUFNx2VC4TfG SvRg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.107.6.84 with SMTP id 81mr14332845iog.52.1428472164666; Tue, 07 Apr 2015 22:49:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.36.51.76 with HTTP; Tue, 7 Apr 2015 22:49:24 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <02F3A553C174554DA1D5EC7CEE9BDDD7011BC3E42B@loki.lvc.com> References: <02F3A553C174554DA1D5EC7CEE9BDDD7011BC3E42B@loki.lvc.com> Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2015 01:49:24 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Zoned Commands ZBC/ZAC, Shingled SMR drives, ZFS From: grarpamp To: "freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Cc: FreeBSD FS X-BeenThere: freebsd-fs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: Filesystems List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2015 05:49:25 -0000 The only 8T SATA options are: 8T for $675 ($84.38/T) 0F23267, 7.4W max (8k q1) 8T for $270 ($33.75/T) ST8000AS0002, 8.66W max (rand read) For TB/$ or TB/RU there is no comparison, particularly for "archive" uses. Going further: 6T for $250 ($41.67/T) 5T for $200 ($40.00/T) 4T for $140 ($35.00/T) 3T for $100 ($33.33/T) go any smaller and the dollar, RU, and watt all fail to yield. For other comparison: SSD: 1T SSD $350 ($350.00/T) Tape (excl drives and changers): 10T 3592JD $410 ($41.00/T) 2.5T LTO6 $23 ($17.20/T) 1.5T LTO5 $23 ($15.33/T) The DM drive seems priced reasonably given 8T is largest drive on market. Prices on same density always go down, storage density always goes up with a new price attached. SMR is the first real example of a "feature" drive. Want to guess where the 8T and 10T HA (performance mitigatable) drives will price out? usb-to-sata bridge not working... There are stories both ways, none of them really trustable. Doesn't matter now that the second batch of native SATA drives is out. The StorageReview tests were made with the drives in a NAS box. The tests have obvious caveats depending on your usage. A generic raid-1 rebuild is theory equivalent to a whole disk sequential dd. The drive spec says you will see avg 150MB/s (~15hr) for that. SR's NAS is obviously not doing a generic raid-1 rebuild there. The tech path is "drive managed" --> "host managed" --> "host aware", better performance mitigation on the right. Developers can get DM and HA drives from Seagate. My posts from Feb 26th and Mar 2nd have bunch of info links. In the links find statements like these: "ZAC and ZBC command sets cover both Host Aware (HA) and Host Managed (HM) devices. SMR drives are expected to saturate the HDD market over the coming years. Without this modification (ZBC command support), HM will NOT work with traditional filesystems. With this modification, HA will demonstrate performance and determinism -- as found in non-SMR drives -- in traditional & new applications." "Seagate manufactures and supports SMR Drive Managed (DM) and SMR Host Aware (HA) drives. Seagate does not currently manufacture SMR Host Managed (HM) drives. Seagate has 2 drives shipping that are SMR-DM. Seagate's new 8TB Archive HDD v2 drive is SMR-HA." Another link: http://events.linuxfoundation.org/events/vault http://events.linuxfoundation.org/sites/events/files/slides/SMR%20in%20Linux%20Systems%20-%20Vault.pdf Bottom line is that SMR and related tech is here to stay as the next step in bulk storage and cannot be ignored. http://ceph.com/ http://www.mkomo.com/cost-per-gigabyte-update