Skip site navigation (1)Skip section navigation (2)
Date:      Mon, 26 Feb 1996 14:56:01 +0100 (MET)
From:      Christoph Kukulies <kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de>
To:        narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee (Narvi)
Cc:        kuku@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de, hackers@FreeBSD.org
Subject:   Re: Win32 (was:Re: Go SCSI! Big improvement...)
Message-ID:  <199602261356.OAA00848@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.91.960226142710.4523B-100000@haldjas.folklore.ee> from "Narvi" at Feb 26, 96 02:46:04 pm

next in thread | previous in thread | raw e-mail | index | archive | help
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, 26 Feb 1996, Christoph P. Kukulies wrote:
> 
> [... Start deleted ...]
> > > A point about which I must disagree... Win32 is not as good. Perhaps it 
> > 
> > "Win32 is not as good" - maybe, maybe not. You see best the effect
> > of "what is good" and what is used widespread when you compare 
> > L*n*x with FreeBSD with FreeBSD is standing for "what is good" :-)
> > 
> 
> I know the problems with "very good, just not that widespead" and 
> "ultimate crap - but people just like it". The thing between Win32 is not 
> that much it's usefullness - just the fact that it makes programming 
> things at least sensible (now where was that winmm32.dll? the way to make 
> win31 use 32 bit data/programs before win32s came - most people probably 
> even haven't heard about it as it was unuseable for programming).

As I said, these 16bit anachronisms like thunking (which you are 
mentioning) will disappear soon.

> 
> But to bring FreeBSD to the desktop you need a bit more than just 
> emulation - otherwise microsoft will be able to point and say - on the 

I didn't say that you have to emulate it in X (if that would work at all)
I did not follow the 'Willows' thing but I have the feeling that this
is getting close to what we need.



> same hardware, FreeBSD runs all (counting, of course only windows 
> programs) programs mmuch slowlier. And also have a thing to compare Win95 
> against on the charts...
> 
> > Win32 is strong at existing software base, MFC, GUI, MSVC++ IDE, debuggers,
> > bitmaps/bitblt.
> > I don't like it particularly, I just see it's impact on the industry.
> > It would be a snap to construct a GUI based FreeBSD installation dialog
> > under MSVC/MFC, at least what the outer appearance is concerned.
> 
> Ever tried Tcl/Tk? You can do the same under FreeBSD/XFree86 in at least 
> the same time + the tools are free.

Tcl/Tk is slow. Tcl/Tk has a lot of rough edges. Partially looks ugly
(too broad borders, ugly shades and colors - ok, you may argue
it is customizable). Tcl/Tk is such a moving
target that you better ship the Tcl/Tk version with your source which you
were using when you compiled the program. Show me a good file selector box
in Tcl/Tk or a tree view. Text selection sucks imho.


> 
> > A Win32 implementation could be native and maybe server client based
> > as well. I don't know how far off an emulation of the Win32 PE format
> > (portable executable) under FreeBSD would be.
> 
> The implementation should be native. At least as I see it, all other ways 
> will cause too much overhead... Anyways, at least one thing is sure - as 
> soon as even one enhancement gets done, it will be in the next MS product 
> and without any mentioning of the original authours.
> 
> > While we are at it, what can 'Willows' supply here?
> > 
> > 
> > > will never be (just think about DOS  - it *did* become better over the 
> > > time of it's existence). If the things go on as they are now, IMHO 
> > > FreeBSD will have better SMP support than Win32...
> > > 
> > > Emulating another system is never as good as running in native mode, no 
> > > matter how hard you try. How about making headers and libraries which 
> > > would allow you to compile you win32 code for FreeBSD and X11 with little 
> > > to no changes? It would allow all those shareware people list that their 
> > > products are available for several platrorms, one of which is real unix :)
> > > 
> > > 	Sander.
> > > 
> > 
> > --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de
> > 
> 
> 	Sander
> 

--Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de



Want to link to this message? Use this URL: <https://mail-archive.FreeBSD.org/cgi/mid.cgi?199602261356.OAA00848>