From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Nov 9 04:29:51 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 730062E6F1F for ; Mon, 9 Nov 2020 04:29:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.187]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CTyhG3Lhhz3mRg for ; Mon, 9 Nov 2020 04:29:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([94.222.5.255]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue012 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1MdNwm-1k2dzf1Wvw-00ZMqn; Mon, 09 Nov 2020 05:29:47 +0100 Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2020 05:29:45 +0100 From: Polytropon To: Tomasz CEDRO Cc: Mario Lobo , FreeBSD Questions Mailing List Subject: Re: Firefox memory usage Message-Id: <20201109052945.6fcfaf70.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: References: Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:U/WZo7DJBPJgnKVSngjNEa5r2TljZX/QwJkXM8Kg3zDnVayzIBl 8fgqdaofkHdg9ziU5tLPRGV5CDSZFMGz533gl1C7pfW+vPe1/9zZeA1jOSA1o1yciDIHEqA WHEtyAQbTygoUbPIy7Ztu1Xk9eOn2384luc2librBnRILYUlQVswUOiXGksyHF3hOt0PkXM ivd7wYcXNSbalANk/LqhQ== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:lvG56wdklNc=:3SifRR9EcdK99WIgnC0nHY y9j4u0sxRaeMjCaHjLgYOrFcd43lXpdqgT2J+37QiAVT/DtHNMyNtx83/1KlAa+wSpWL7qO4h 6DbQKE944drdP9YetHrB2kwE2EvFJlO/30zHnzRX6eDzCLrTIwbI2aq1+OI53dvnr9vxkLif9 /4nDy1o/wVpsCqytAAMdp6NCXWCyPBUuVmDluN5PDL0wD88IrxUlK5wCHWfmi1dvUq4OJz/Ix PQihyRpbMV4XKUwoUxsSWMBKgrwvOYm5xme4HcbFqKUveyuWzQWhehtBodumriDGKvn+HlT6O uQ2j+vtDF1UvXsQJXD7tDBP8O1RRTIS5c5Ecoc6eyRbR36QegeIEsbwV6W8666vIN2L78uIMK jOUHYQQaJdsFYCu+U0Vxu8QKJ0CBkmYAi+CA0OtLiMrrmVqMGyJmd1iMdCsXr X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4CTyhG3Lhhz3mRg X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@edvax.de has no SPF policy when checking 212.227.126.187) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@edvax.de X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.56 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.96)[-0.956]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[94.222.5.255:received]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[212.227.126.187:from]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[212.227.126.187:from:127.0.2.255]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[212.227.126.187:from]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[212.227.126.187:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2020 04:29:51 -0000 On Sun, 8 Nov 2020 23:46:06 +0100, Tomasz CEDRO wrote: > yuupp i even close it quite often and clean up tabs but my Atari was faster > :-( > > welcome to the brave new world where first better website is probably more > complex (in terms of frameworks and dependencies and memory footprint) than > the OS itself ;-) Don't confuse modern web browser with "programs that display web pages" - their complexity is like a whole operating system, as they share concepts and implementation of those. That is the _first_ complexity - and on top, as you mentioned, is the _second_ complexity of websites taking advantage of all that power: primarily JS, its many frameworks, external resources and dependencies, lots of local computation and storage. It's quite funny that all the disadvantages associated with "Flash" now have become even more significant with JS. Many years ago, I tried opening 70+ tabs in Opera with "Flash", each one playing some video. That was on a dual-core machine with 2 GB RAM. With the 75th tab open, swapping started, but Opera still was responsive (albeit sluggish), so I could close the tabs, and system came back to normal. Funny thing: It seemed to be more I/O load than CPU load, and looked like this (copied from a terminal - yes, this was still possible): 1 [|||| 7.9%] Tasks: 73, 0 thr; 1 running 2 [| 2.6%] Load average: 0.38 0.70 0.42 Mem[|||||||||||||||||||1601/1990MB] Uptime: 00:52:33 Swp[||||| 275/2047MB] Now try _that_ today - with today's resource-intensive websites, with today's resource-intensive web browsers. Use a recent PC, put 64 GB RAM in them. Probably you won't even reach 50 tabs open... :-) > also ~80+ Firefox introduced some nasty ideas such as "profile downgrade > protection" so i can only imagine what kind of team took over the project > :-) Combine this with "use our online services and store your stuff in our cloud"-mentality... "our customers"... yes, definitely what I want from a "simple" program that displays web pages... ;-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...