From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Sep 5 17:35:53 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BB2637B400 for ; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 17:35:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (mta01-svc.ntlworld.com [62.253.162.41]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25B8943E4A for ; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 17:35:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from george.reid1@ntlworld.com) Received: from sobek.lan ([80.6.30.227]) by mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020906003545.OVFC25423.mta01-svc.ntlworld.com@sobek.lan>; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 01:35:45 +0100 Received: (from greid@localhost) by sobek.lan (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g860Zt642923; Fri, 6 Sep 2002 01:35:55 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from george.reid1@ntlworld.com) X-Authentication-Warning: sobek.lan: greid set sender to george.reid1@ntlworld.com using -f Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 01:35:55 +0100 From: George Reid To: "Neal E. Westfall" Cc: Joshua Lee , dave@jetcafe.org, tlambert2@mindspring.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why did evolution fail? Message-ID: <20020906013554.A42842@FreeBSD.org> References: <20020904232446.0b55b1d5.yid@softhome.net> <20020904205814.U38687-100000@Tolstoy.home.lan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20020904205814.U38687-100000@Tolstoy.home.lan>; from nwestfal@directvinternet.com on Thu, Sep 05, 2002 at 09:05:38AM -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Sep 05, 2002 at 09:05:38AM -0700, Neal E. Westfall wrote: [...] > Since you mention Isaiah chapter 1, who is being referred to in verse > 4? Who is the "Holy One" of Israel that the people of Israel have > despised? Why does God say in verse 11, "I have had enough of burnt > offerings of rams And the fat of fed cattle; And I take no pleasure in > the blood of bulls, lambs or goats"? What then *was* the purpose of > the temple sacrifices back in Leviticus? [...] To plagiarise a great work: a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them? b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her? c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense. d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to the Welsh, but not the Scottish. Can you clarify? Why can't I own a Welsh person? e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself? f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an Abomination (Lev 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? g) Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here? h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27. How should they die? i) I know from Lev 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves? j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev 24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14) > So why are you attacking what my religion teaches? Aren't you just > being a little bit hypocritical? Do you think that Christians just > made up the doctrine of hell? Where do you think it came from? [...] The concept of "hell" is a very convenient mind-control tool. The early leaders of the Church were extremely wise to bring the doctrine onboard. However, the word "hell" occurs 53 times in the King James Bible (31 of these are in the Old Testament). These are a series of mistranslations which happened to suit the doctrine that the early Church wished to teach for its own purposes (indeed, as the above suited my own purposes) of "saving souls" (which, one would assume, is synonymous with "making money"). This was achieved by simply bludgeoning the ignorant population into acceptance based on the works of many educated but ultimately corrupt scholars. The myth of 'hell' is perpetuated through the ignorance of modern Christians (very few of whom read Greek and/or Hebrew) who are unwilling to accept the plain fact that it simply does not exist in the Bible. If you'd like to argue this point further please feel free to do so, citing passages in the 'original' (insofar as is possible) Greek or Hebrew, as appropriate. Bear in mind that I read both languages so your arguments had better be both logically watertight and correct within a historical context. Please note that I will not accept any passages from either the Latin Vulgate or a Bible written in any modern language as proof of any claims you may choose to make due to the errancy of translation. Also, please forgive me for any delay in response: I don't have a great deal of free time at the moment but I will attempt to reply as soon as is possible for me. -- George C A Reid WWW: http://people.FreeBSD.org/~greid/ Mob: (07740) 197460 FreeBSD Committer/Developer greid@FreeBSD.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message