From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Jun 17 8:47:17 2001 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from h24-67-61-12.lb.shawcable.net (h24-67-61-12.lb.shawcable.net [24.67.61.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B452537B408 for ; Sun, 17 Jun 2001 08:46:58 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from chris@home.com) Received: by h24-67-61-12.lb.shawcable.net (Postfix, from userid 1002) id B528966B00E; Sun, 17 Jun 2001 09:39:05 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 09:39:05 -0600 From: Chris Moline To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: System Tuning/Sysadmins Message-ID: <20010617093905.A20349@h24-67-61-12.lb.shawcable.net> References: <20010617063505.A29241@shell.monmouth.com> <20010617073505.B20171@h24-67-61-12.lb.shawcable.net> <20010617103922.A79022@acidpit.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010617103922.A79022@acidpit.org>; from rch@acidpit.org on Sun, Jun 17, 2001 at 10:39:22AM -0400 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sun, Jun 17, 2001 at 10:39:22AM -0400, Robert Hough wrote: > On Sun, Jun 17, 2001, Chris Moline wrote: > > > > Making the os easier to use is not a bad thing. > > Agreed, but knowing old ways is a "Good Thing(tm)" as you never know > when you'll encounter some ancient box sitting in the back of some den, > performing old production tasks everyone now takes for granted, because > it's been doing it so long. True enough. Still there are so many different machines out there that you can't hope to know how to run them all. > > What's wrong with using an easier to use tool?? If it does everything > > you need then I say it's good enough > > The problem isn't using the new tool, it's only knowing how to use the > new tool. What are you going to do if for someone reason X fails to > start and you can't get to this super-groovy gui? What happens when > if someone deletes the useradd/adduser utilities (It's happened)? > > I'm all for the snazzy new tools that are coming out. I use metatool > under Solaris all the time, simply because typing in all those commands > when building a new volume gets really freaking old. I can do it if I > must though. Now, if I could just get them to use veritas instead, cause > metatool annoys the piss out of me. I agree with you here, sort of. I am not talking about gui tools specifically, jsut easier-to-use ones. I believe that it is entirely possible to create an easier-to-use text-mode interface. Case in point, kernel configuration. Just simply open lint, read through it, and maybe the handbook if it has been awhile, then edit generic, do config/etc and voila you are done. If only everything in bsd could be that simple. Also what happens if someone's wiped out the editors, or /etc?? I fail to see how this is different from X not working. Perhaps it's less likely for vi and /etc to be wrecked in some way than X?? Easier to fix?? Having said that I think you are right, knowing how to run a system is better than kludging with some tool and hoping it'll work. But I still think that a lot of things are harder than they need to be ( ie setting up ppp, sendmail ). Chris Moline To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message