From owner-svn-src-head@freebsd.org Tue Jun 12 12:41:24 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: svn-src-head@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51AC6100CC2E; Tue, 12 Jun 2018 12:41:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kevans@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 02ADA81139; Tue, 12 Jun 2018 12:41:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kevans@freebsd.org) Received: from mail-lf0-f46.google.com (mail-lf0-f46.google.com [209.85.215.46]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) (Authenticated sender: kevans) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 97C701C704; Tue, 12 Jun 2018 12:41:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kevans@freebsd.org) Received: by mail-lf0-f46.google.com with SMTP id d24-v6so35739673lfa.8; Tue, 12 Jun 2018 05:41:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: APt69E0AV/njLhaJcMmam7HSDvrEFeuTaiwVHUgPUIcfD/frD2teD7QA nsQeE9CRzt0XKHz7YL5IWGl/cW2mskCYFwMemdk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADUXVKJUExif0VDoe7kAsxhs4/Z2DQszenE2Ep9Wyav0mgKzpMnVf5lc4By2Dih8MrfULwcwdOenGQvr65ElYG1L4JU= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:1710:: with SMTP id l16-v6mr170746lje.74.1528807282302; Tue, 12 Jun 2018 05:41:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a2e:8582:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Tue, 12 Jun 2018 05:41:01 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20180612115105.GB75210@FreeBSD.org> References: <201806110132.w5B1WI5d094546@repo.freebsd.org> <20180612115105.GB75210@FreeBSD.org> From: Kyle Evans Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2018 07:41:01 -0500 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: svn commit: r334939 - head/stand/lua To: Alexey Dokuchaev Cc: Warner Losh , Devin Teske , svn-src-head@freebsd.org, svn-src-all@freebsd.org, src-committers Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-BeenThere: svn-src-head@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: SVN commit messages for the src tree for head/-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2018 12:41:24 -0000 On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 6:51 AM, Alexey Dokuchaev wrote: > On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 08:07:23AM -0600, Warner Losh wrote: >> ... >> The last articulated plan in arch@ was that LUA will be default in 12, and >> we plan to remove FORTH in 13. Last time I said it there in February, there >> was only email agreeing that I could find. This matches the in-person >> consensus poll I took at BSDcan as well. I think it would take a very >> extraordinary set circumstance and severe problems with LUA to change those >> plans. > > For the idiots among us, what's wrong the with FICL-based loader(8) and why > is it being replaced with Lua one? There's nothing wrong, per se, with the FICL-based loader(8). It is incredibly stable, it works well, and Devin has done a great job of maintaining it. The problem is that it's hard to get buy-in from others on FORTH and it's a harder language for "kids these days" to learn because it's so different from what's commonly used basically everywhere else. By maintaining the status quo, we're stuck in a situation where we won't get any new blood (which we already don't have much of, mind you) willing to maintain loader(8) because of this barrier to entry. Lua, on the other hand, is much much easier to pick up and grasp just by reading existing code. We've already had tons of interest from others willing to hack on the Lua since introduction, and at least one feature already added by someone who isn't me (auto-enumeration of kernel directories in /boot).