From owner-svn-src-all@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Dec 12 22:48:30 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: svn-src-all@FreeBSD.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [69.147.83.52]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF450710; Wed, 12 Dec 2012 22:48:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bright@mu.org) Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAFC08FC0A; Wed, 12 Dec 2012 22:48:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: from Alfreds-MacBook-Pro-6.local (c-67-180-208-218.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [67.180.208.218]) by elvis.mu.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C863B1A3C33; Wed, 12 Dec 2012 14:48:29 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <50C909BD.9090709@mu.org> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 14:48:29 -0800 From: Alfred Perlstein User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.7; rv:17.0) Gecko/17.0 Thunderbird/17.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andriy Gapon Subject: Re: svn commit: r244112 - head/sys/kern References: <201212110708.qBB78EWx025288@svn.freebsd.org> <201212121046.43706.jhb@freebsd.org> <201212121658.49048.jhb@freebsd.org> <50C90567.8080406@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <50C90567.8080406@FreeBSD.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Adrian Chadd , src-committers@FreeBSD.org, John Baldwin , svn-src-all@FreeBSD.org, Alfred Perlstein , svn-src-head@FreeBSD.org X-BeenThere: svn-src-all@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "SVN commit messages for the entire src tree \(except for " user" and " projects" \)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2012 22:48:30 -0000 On 12/12/12 2:29 PM, Andriy Gapon wrote: > Now we get a new middle-ground: get both worse performance (because > KASSERTs are compiled in) and a risk of harming your data (because > KASSERTs no longer panic). The upside: there is no panic! There's just > a log message (or etc). and chance to get more log messages because > the insanity propagates. And a chance to lose your data (your > customer's) - but I've already mentioned this. I am not sure that I > like this kind of middle-ground. I have a number of points here: The most important one being: 1) without kassert you would still have the bug, just that it would be unreported. The upside: there is no panic! There's **NO** log message (or etc). and chance to get more log messages because the insanity propagates. Terrible! Let me explain that again: If you don't compile in KASSERT, then it's not like the condition is never going to happen. Instead it will just be unreported. So to put it in your own words, *without* KASSERT you get: The upside: there is no panic! There's **NO** log message (or etc). and chance to get more log messages because the insanity propagates. Now let's get to the other points: 2) Since this is not the default, then I do not understand why you are so concerned. 3) Can you explain to me why it is so upsetting to you that someone might be able to use this functionality? 4) *puts on flame retardant suit* ... Linux has had this for over a decade and it's allowed them to find bugs in different ways. Mind you, in Linux it was the default. 5) Adrian and I have both stated that we need this sort of functionality to avoid superfluous panics in our work environments while still getting bug feedback. Can we now please stop arguing over a non-default option that will help some vendors report bugs to the project? Thank you, -Alfred