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Date:      Mon, 15 Jun 2015 21:58:00 -0700
From:      NGie Cooper <yaneurabeya@gmail.com>
To:        Julian Elischer <julian@freebsd.org>
Cc:        Adrian Chadd <adrian@freebsd.org>, Craig Rodrigues <rodrigc@freebsd.org>,  "src-committers@freebsd.org" <src-committers@freebsd.org>,  "svn-src-all@freebsd.org" <svn-src-all@freebsd.org>,  "svn-src-head@freebsd.org" <svn-src-head@freebsd.org>, Marcel Moolenaar <xcllnt@mac.com>
Subject:   Re: svn commit: r284198 - head/bin/ls
Message-ID:  <CAGHfRMAyL3S3Rw7D%2Bd2NPj_y5TnkWpwRztiRAJtt8bwTRN_2LA@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <557F8001.4020401@freebsd.org>
References:  <201506100127.t5A1RdX6051959@svn.freebsd.org> <20150612204309.11dd3391@kan> <20150613024916.GA98218@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <1434208622.1415.57.camel@freebsd.org> <C88CB169-12FE-4692-92AA-5C7D41BB61DF@FreeBSD.org> <557C661F.8080104@freebsd.org> <860017ED-D754-450C-865D-2D81A30C2212@xcllnt.net> <CAG=rPVd93Q18aYnSGSf_QH4C08RCq5wsdKQSNYTgWQ2huTbUHQ@mail.gmail.com> <20150614002640.GA2746@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <CAG=rPVfrM9SnqRU-g=L6Y39GM2yEd%2Bt6=UFhggauu0s3HJvpYw@mail.gmail.com> <CAJ-VmomBOpOTeiF=toKFVRFavwFJg_js_O68z_%2B_xDxguqyB2g@mail.gmail.com> <CAJ-VmokSu_oSiNNZKAGoof5d7SaAnO8F3TWjsxojQz5-7x1y=A@mail.gmail.com> <CAG=rPVdze=pe-x_ACX0BgwK3UNDgxSp_wyyLNTAoxE3Ons8Xgg@mail.gmail.com> <CAJ-Vmomvt4AUQfuTC=CUbCBM00fNREoSH6RG%2B-N6%2BPo6OiaGjg@mail.gmail.com> <557E4C3D.5080602@freebsd.org> <2CFE8F01-98B8-403C-BE1F-57D6F2368BE3@gmail.com> <557F8001.4020401@freebsd.org>

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On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 6:46 PM, Julian Elischer <julian@freebsd.org> wrote:
> On 6/15/15 1:34 PM, Garrett Cooper wrote:
>>
>> On Jun 14, 2015, at 20:53, Julian Elischer <julian@freebsd.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 6/14/15 10:48 AM, Adrian Chadd wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 13 June 2015 at 18:22, Craig Rodrigues <rodrigc@freebsd.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 6:00 PM, Adrian Chadd <adrian@freebsd.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I guarantee that no matter what you've worked on, there's
>>>>>>> approximately five orders of magnitude of shipping devices whose
>>>>>>> entire storage space can be measured in 1 digit megabytes. Each year.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (And yes - there's an appreciable set of them for which freebsd boots,
>>>>>> runs and keeps running on them.0
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can buy em too, some of them even under $60.
>>>>>
>>>>> Can FreeBSD now not run on these systems because of libxo?
>>>>
>>>> It's a tight squeeze as it is. Running in 8MB of flash (even if it's
>>>> compressed) is still an exercise in "what can you cut out."
>>>>
>>>> My point isn't that it isn't running because of libxo; my point is
>>>> that arguing about "embedded" involving "lots of storage" is woefully
>>>> incorrect and will continue to be until those gigabytes of storage are
>>>> available for a penny. Which yes, I'm guessing will happen in my
>>>> career - but it's also quite likely code bloat will continue to chase
>>>> that upward.
>>>
>>> do we have a WITHOUT_LIBXO option on sources?  I believe we should..
>>
>> +1. I would be more than happy to implement it by stubbing out the
>> majority of the macros to something less invasive, but it might be a bit
>> before I do that.
>> Thanks,
>
> but that wouldn't remove the bloat within the apps.. just make it use null
> calls.

That was the idea. Make it like "libnxo" or something, a dummy library
like libnetbsd with weak symbols that can be optimized away by the
compiler...



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