From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Tue Apr 26 11:58:28 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDE4016A4CF for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 11:58:28 +0000 (GMT) Received: from lakermmtao08.cox.net (lakermmtao08.cox.net [68.230.240.31]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6EA043D5C for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 11:58:27 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from chrisc123@cox.net) Received: from total.cox.net ([70.181.10.187]) by lakermmtao08.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.04.00 201-2131-118-20041027) with ESMTP id <20050426115827.BSTM18139.lakermmtao08.cox.net@total.cox.net> for ; Tue, 26 Apr 2005 07:58:27 -0400 Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.0.20050426075555.01be7640@pop.east.cox.net> X-Sender: chrisc123@pop.east.cox.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0 Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 07:58:22 -0400 To: From: ChrisC Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Subject: RE: Where to find good/cheap tech support X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 11:58:28 -0000 I guess we are going with RedHat on this server. I would have preferred FreeBSD :( This was just meant to be a little question on where to get help that fits our budget, nothing more. For those that like to poke and hit.... I'm just a little employee doing what I can with what I'm given. At 4/26/2005 01:31 AM, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: >owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org wrote: > > You seem to be making assumptions and are looking into this > > to deeply > > my friend. But thanks for the feedback anyway :) - > > The $150 was only an arbitrary number thats common in the field. I > > could have chosen another number. It would not have mattered, the > > question would have been the same. > >That is baloney, when you titled the post good/CHEAP, quite obviously the >number matters greatly. > > > - > > The SCSI adapter is an Adaptec Ultra320 built into a $3000+ 1U web > > server and not a common inexpensive controller. Since it works fine > > for both RedHat and Windows we are probably going to go with > > another OS on this server other than FreeBSD. > >Um, that would be Windows, right? That is, your going to drop an >additional >$1200 on Windows OS and licensing for it just because you don't want to >drop $150 into an hour of support? > >If that isn't true then why are you even listing Windows here? Windows >isn't >a UNIX OS, and has no relevance to anything. Is it because your thinking >that if you tell us Windows runs on this server that we are all going to >be >real impressed? Aren't you forgetting a lot of us already run 1U >webservers >fine with FreeBSD with no problems? > >The fact RedHat runs on this is significant since the FreeBSD and RedHat >Adaptec driver have a common ancestor. > > > Why arm wrestle the > > situation when no one seems to know the solution to our issue. - > >Simple, because the OS is free. If you want to save the money on >licensing >fees then you spend your time arm wrestling problems when they come up. > >If you own a car and you want to save a lot of money on mechanics fees >then >you learn how to fix it, buy a lot of tools, and do the work yourself. >Why >is this any different with operating systems? > > > And I am in a VERY small company that could barely pay for what we > > just purchased. We where lucky to get what we did and the idea of > > having a duplicate is wishful thinking and not realistic, so thats > > a risk we will have to take until we can afford better solutions. > >In short, you overreached yourself. So let me ask you, why should >customers >use you when your competition has actually spent the money for backup >servers? > >I work for a small company too, lots of people do that is no excuse. But >when I have a problem, such a fielding a mailserver, that really ought to >have a backup server, if I have $3K to spend on it, I don't run out and >buy a new server. I instead get creative and perhaps buy 2 used servers >at $1500, or roll my own clones, or get a leasing company involved, etc. > >I don't shortchange my customers because I'm not willing to gamble with >their livelihoods. Sure, I may not be out there saying to them that I >have a brand new P4 3Ghz server for them like you are, but I am telling >them >that for what they need, a P4 3Ghz server won't be any different than a >P3 1.5Ghz system, (which it isn't) and that I have redundancies in that >P3 1.5Ghz network that allow me to guarentee to them that if my server >blows >chunks that I will have them back online within 20 minutes. > > > Its not the perfect situation but its the best we can do with what > > we have. > >No, it isn't. > > > I would love a new house but the cold numbers dictate > > what's really possible right now. - > >No, they don't. You are simply making up justfications for yourself to >try to sleep better at night. You don't have the moral leg to stand on >to >sell server services to your customers, because when your customers buy >services from you there is an implied understanding that they are buying >server services that are done in a professional manner, better than they >could do them. > >And if you aren't selling server services to customers, but instead using >this server for your own business, the moral issues still remain because >your customers depend on your product, and if you go offline a week >because >your all-the-eggs-in-one-basket solution blew chunks, then your still >affecting your customers. > >I'm sure you can probably go on making excuses, but I'm not interested >in them. You said you couldn't afford to have the server down for >days at a time. Well, either that was a baldfaced lie and you were >full of crap, or your abrogating your responsibility to provide solid >IT services and infrastructure. Sites that cannot afford to have >a server down for days at a time MUST have backup servers, it is simple >as that, and no amount of whining and excuses justify anything different. > > > Now if your interested in the problem, here is the support > > issue/question no one seems to have any clue about..... - > > I am attempting to install FreeBSD 5.3 onto a new server, but > > during the initial bootup it fails / times out from what I think > > is it trying > > to initialize the SCSI adapter. The server has an Adaptec AIC-7902 > > dual-channel Ultra320 SCSI controller which the i386 ahd(4) > > driver has > > listed as a supported device. > > - > > I have been reading and searching this lists archives as well as > > the bsdforums.org site for possible solutions, but so far what I > > have found has not worked. I have tried disabling/enabling ACPI, > > removing all but one SCSI drive and re-checking the adapter > > settings comparing them to a different Adaptec controller on > > another server running FreeBSD 5.3 which works fine. The servers > > BIOS and firmware > > is all up > > to date and is mainly running on its default settings. - > >Have you looked at PR kern/71778 it is still open, is applicable to >your problem. You should post followup to it with the same output >as requested "pciconf -lv". You should also check out FreeBSD release >4.11 on this system, as the original creator of that PR did. > >Without feedback the developers do not know there is a problem. The >Questions mailing list is NOT the place for submitting bugs to >FreeBSD. It is rather where people who don't know better get their >paradigm adjusted to be realistic, or if their too emotionally envolved >in their >excus.. paradigm adjusted and cannot take the forced therapy, then they >get pissed off >and go away and run Windows or something and sooth their ruffled feathers >by telling themselves they were right all along. > >The fact that someone else has a similar problem with this >chipset is a much better indicator it's a driver bug than the original >single post to the PR, and much more likely to get the driver author >to take a look at it. If the driver author does not look at it I am >sorry about that, but I would bet that if you offered him half the amount >of money as what it would cost to run Windows on this server of yours >that >the bug would be fixed quickly. > >But of course, you won't do that because you seem to have a moral >adversion >to spending money on software or support. Hardware I guess is OK to >spend >money on, with a grudge, I guess. > >I wonder how long you would stay in business if all your customers had >this >same money spending attitude to your product? > >Ted