From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 24 00:58:24 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C3BF73D for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2013 00:58:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from feld@FreeBSD.org) Received: from out4-smtp.messagingengine.com (out4-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.28]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 35E072D64 for ; Thu, 24 Oct 2013 00:58:24 +0000 (UTC) Received: from compute6.internal (compute6.nyi.mail.srv.osa [10.202.2.46]) by gateway1.nyi.mail.srv.osa (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54C5321712 for ; Wed, 23 Oct 2013 20:49:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web3 ([10.202.2.213]) by compute6.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 23 Oct 2013 20:49:53 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=message-id:from:to:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding:content-type:subject:date:in-reply-to :references; s=smtpout; bh=Wp9GKJmXVqWDxeAlkUY+heWt75w=; b=QxAPv 2ajHmMI2PzfxzEDyPOYrsUaQ/yWpgIloxxSaVPNm3tHhEUexdCRZ3OMEdXwlc9cs ldBtHRsi39ck1sYcZNT1IPlAAV4t0MbBhA9HMXL8Z9tnvuPUu4CkjLBame3dKOSb 5RtaNx4E2OPAvxeGS+B46DWf2dHILjFu6mXiFM= Received: by web3.nyi.mail.srv.osa (Postfix, from userid 99) id 33E291141CA; Wed, 23 Oct 2013 20:49:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1382575793.17670.37780829.71DE6DE7@webmail.messagingengine.com> X-Sasl-Enc: oxt1m9gmOZpO38ArbnjH5mgUm9t7mxw9D5+1qDs2qkSx 1382575793 From: Mark Felder To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface - ajax-25c9bdb0 Subject: Re: [rfc] removing the NDISulator Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 19:49:53 -0500 In-Reply-To: References: <5265878B.1050809@yandex.ru> <201310212146.r9LLkqZ1044966@fire.js.berklix.net> <52684E48.20709@unsane.co.uk> X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2013 00:58:24 -0000 On Wed, Oct 23, 2013, at 19:11, Adrian Chadd wrote: > On 23 October 2013 15:31, Vincent Hoffman wrote: > > > On 23/10/2013 18:35, Eitan Adler wrote: > > > > On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 6:29 PM, Adrian Chadd wrote: > > > > If there are drivers that people absolutely need fixed then they should > > stand up and say "hey, I really would like X to work better!" and then > > follow it up with some encouraging incentives. Right now the NDISulator > > lets people work _around_ this by having something that kind of works for > > them but it doesn't improve our general driver / stack ecosystems. > > > > I doubt most people prefer to use the ndisulator over a native driver. > > However, many people don't have the skills, time, or money to provide > > the incentives you are talking about. At this point ndisulator > > provides a means to an end: working wireless and it isn't causing > > significant strain on the project in terms of development effort. > > > > Our end users are not always developers and I think removing this > > feature will hurt more than it will help. > > > > > > > > As an end user, the main issue I have is that according to the manpage it > > supports ndis 5.1 > > According to > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Driver_Interface_Specification this > > is the version supported by > > Windows XP , Server 2003, > > Windows CE 4.x, 5.0, 6.0 > > > > As you might guess most new devices wont be coming with drivers for XP, so > > does this mean I wont be able to use drivers for a recent windows version > > (my understanding is that it will but happy to learn differently) > > If this is the case and there is no active development on it, a gradual > > depreciation over the 10.x series is probably a good idea. If however its > > likely to support current drivers/devices it does have a place (I've used > > it once or twice in a pinch.) > > > > This is why I'd rather us bite the bullet now and deprecate it, versus > have > it in there and put in the work to upgrade it to handle NDIS 6.x drivers > with the Microsoft wireless extensions stuff. > 802.11AC adapters claiming Windows XP support: (very quick search) http://www.asus.com/Networking/USBAC53/ http://www.asus.com/Networking/PCEAC66/ http://www.netgear.com/home/products/wireless-adapters/ultimate-wireless-adapters/A6200.aspx#two http://www.trendnet.com/products/proddetail.asp?prod=100_TEW-805UB&cat=202 If these idiots would quit making drivers for XP you might have an easier battle ahead, Adrian.