From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Sep 24 07:35:41 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90FBD16A4B3 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 07:35:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.speakeasy.net (mail10.speakeasy.net [216.254.0.210]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5024F44013 for ; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 07:35:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Received: (qmail 26839 invoked from network); 24 Sep 2003 14:35:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO server.baldwin.cx) ([216.27.160.63]) (envelope-sender )encrypted SMTP for ; 24 Sep 2003 14:35:36 -0000 Received: from laptop.baldwin.cx (gw1.twc.weather.com [216.133.140.1]) by server.baldwin.cx (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8OEZE6Y022377; Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:35:15 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from jhb@FreeBSD.org) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.5.4 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3F6FCD7E.4070301@freebsd.org> Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:35:17 -0400 (EDT) From: John Baldwin To: Scott Long X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) cc: deischen@FreeBSD.org cc: Doug Barton cc: Freebsd Current Subject: Re: Fixing -pthreads (Re: ports and -current) X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:35:41 -0000 On 23-Sep-2003 Scott Long wrote: > Daniel Eischen wrote: >> This is about 3rd party applications built outside of >> ports. The only possible problem you are going to >> have is on the link command, and it should be obvious >> that you're missing a link to the threads library. >> This is trivial to fix. It's not like we're making >> someone change their code to accomodate library or >> kernel interface changes. >> > > This is exactly the case the is going to cause the problems, though. > For you, compiling a 3rd party app and dealing with failures in the > linker is easy to deal with. For someone else, it might not be. If > they go to compile an app and it compiles and runs fine on linux but > fails on FreeBSD with linker errors, it will likely leave a negative > impression in their mind. > > I'm comparing my arguments to linux because a lot more apps are written > with linux in mind than with solaris in mind these days. People who are > writing for linux or switching from linux might not know that > '-lpthread' is a requirement, but they are more likely to know that > '-pthread' will take care of all of that magic for them. This argument > really comes down to ease of use and user experience. Steering away > from de-facto standards steers us away from a positive user and > developer experience. > > I'm perfectly happy to support the libkse->libpthread switch, and I'm > perfectly happy to support making libpthread be the default threading > library. But, I strongly believe that we need to also treat -pthread > sanely. Erm, I thought (if I remember correctly), that all the autoconf scripts, etc., that I've seen for Linnex use -lpthread, not -pthread. So we are actually becoming more like the de facto standard by dropping -pthread, not less. -pthread is a hack, please let it die. Either that or lets have gcc -math (for libm), gcc -standalone (libstand?) gcc -X11 (for X libraries), gcc -kde, gcc -gnome, etc. -- John Baldwin <>< http://www.FreeBSD.org/~jhb/ "Power Users Use the Power to Serve!" - http://www.FreeBSD.org/