Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 19:02:45 -0600 From: Mike Meyer <mwm@mired.org> To: "Doug Young" <dougy@bryden.apana.org.au> Cc: "Mike Meyer" <mwm@mired.org>, "Duke Normandin" <01031149@3web.net>, "David Johnson" <djohnson@acuson.com>, <mij@osdn.com>, <freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG> Subject: Re: documentation issues generally Message-ID: <15021.29109.287302.175380@guru.mired.org> In-Reply-To: <00f501c0ab57$0cf59760$0200a8c0@apana.org.au> References: <046701c0ab3c$c4a66300$847e03cb@apana.org.au> <15021.23142.119090.401764@guru.mired.org> <00f501c0ab57$0cf59760$0200a8c0@apana.org.au>
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Doug Young <dougy@bryden.apana.org.au> types: > > The way to deal with that is, of course, to submit improved > > documentation to them. They seem both responsive when it comes to > > adding submissions from other people, and appreciative of receiving > > them. They are more responsive and more appreciative if you mark the > > submissions up properly, as that leaves less work for them to do. But > > their markup language is easier than modern HTML, and lots of people > > have learned that. > I lurked in the docs list for while but eventually gave it away after > finding that at least 99% of the postings were in some weird language. In other words, you never even bothered trying. I've never read the docs list. I don't want to read about writing docs, I want to provide better docs to help people use FreeBSD, and cut down on the questions on -questions. I believe I've succeeded in doing that. > > Have you tried submitting something in that format? If not, what did > > you base this conclusion on? As indicated above, my experience > > submitting things has been pretty good. > I wasn't able to figure out anything about the spoken language (terminology) > used by the docs folk, let alone the programming language. That stuff is so > daunting that I'm not surprised that the operators of the various > "user-friendly" > sites haven't succeeded in penetrating the docs inner circle. I haven't "penetrated the docs inner circle". After all, if you want to get something done, you get a lot farther *doing* it than talking about it. See the handbook entry about bikesheds at <URL: http://www.freebsd.org/FAQ/misc.html#isc.html#BIKESHED-PAINTING >. > Trying to use the man pages to learn FreeBSD is like trying to > use Websters to learn english. I'd expect the results to be mind > numbing in either case. > Exactly .... however that doesn't stop the experts yelling "RTFM" at people If the person appears to have a clue but doesn't seem to have read the appropriate manual, RTF *which* M is a perfectly valid response. If they don't have the clue, the RTFF or RTFH is more appropriate. If the answers don't exist there, I write them. Then I PR them, so that I can shout RTF[MFH] at people who haven't. > > The bottom line is that FreeBSD is a an open source volunteer > > project. "Volunteer" means that nothing gets done unless someone steps > > up to do it. "Open Source" means anyone who wants to has the > > information they need to do that. If you think something in FreeBSD > > sucks, you can fix it, so just do it. > I have ample experience with volunteer organizations .... Apana is such a > beast :) > Its effectively a non-profit / hands on internet training & access provider > with > some 1000 members across OZ. Something like 50 are on one or more of the > regional or national management committees and they are the only ones who > do anything .... the bulk of the 200 odd permanent & 700 odd dialup members > just want a cheap ISP that never breaks (at least the FreeBSD systems keep > going where the linux / AppleMac / Windows ones don't) So when something about Apana sucked, did you fix the problem, or just talk about fixing it? <mike -- Mike Meyer <mwm@mired.org> http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/ Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message
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