From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Jul 7 11:36:26 2012 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 735D8106564A; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 11:36:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [89.206.35.99]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C431E8FC16; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 11:36:25 +0000 (UTC) Received: from wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q67BaM4i094887; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 13:36:22 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) with ESMTP id q67BaMCu094884; Sat, 7 Jul 2012 13:36:22 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from wojtek@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl) Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 13:36:22 +0200 (CEST) From: Wojciech Puchar To: Pawel Jakub Dawidek In-Reply-To: <20120707105735.GD1437@garage.freebsd.pl> Message-ID: References: <20120705082857.GB37083@server.rulingia.com> <4FF55864.8040807@FreeBSD.org> <201207051215.44799.j.mckeown@ru.ac.za> <20120706201721.GB1437@garage.freebsd.pl> <20120707105735.GD1437@garage.freebsd.pl> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl [127.0.0.1]); Sat, 07 Jul 2012 13:36:22 +0200 (CEST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Jonathan McKeown Subject: Re: Training wheels for commandline (was Re: Pull in upstream before 9.1 code freeze?) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2012 11:36:26 -0000 > starting now, we try hard to make FreeBSD easier to use, more consistent > and friendlier in general for a long time now. > > In your terminology making FreeBSD easier for newcomers is "going > down" implies that "going up" is to make it harder for newcomer. No. It just quickly eliminate 99% of "newcomers" that would not go up ever anyway. > I hate to break it to you, but you are living upside down. As you already stated - it may be me or you - the view would be the same: other are upside down. > >> Please answer it is important for me, and many other people for a future. > > You should definiately pay more attention, as this is happening every day. > > Everyone was newcomer once. I didn't succeed on my first attempt to > install FreeBSD, neither on the second attempt. It took me few tries to > do it right. I knew nothing about UNIX back then. and that's right, this is the way human learns. This is contrary to modern linux distros that you may install not knowing anything, run not knowing anything and then still not known anything, being a newbie forever. Anyway thank you for an answer - i now have definite knowledge what will FreeBSD future look like because this is what i wanted.