From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Mar 18 21:35:01 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B017A16A4CF for ; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 21:35:01 +0000 (GMT) Received: from rproxy.gmail.com (rproxy.gmail.com [64.233.170.196]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E145243D3F for ; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 21:35:00 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from bsdfreak@gmail.com) Received: by rproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 1so120341rny for ; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 13:35:00 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=P8cKGKQGSAuWsOtU5oAKecGrY3ug+fwOXQSaCuqaL1naiuwJPJ1X2FmRUMGGuo3k0CPStoGcIBQIqyMCKLPGMNiIf/+uAuloM4Ma5oH5CMT+w39+MEEC+Lyi/gLDewkH5p++GFw5OeqMmdOolW9QIys/SimZMu85c6Ccl0vFLPM= Received: by 10.38.179.2 with SMTP id b2mr999603rnf; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 13:35:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.38.179.44 with HTTP; Fri, 18 Mar 2005 13:35:00 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 16:35:00 -0500 From: Alexander Chamandy To: Luiz Gustavo , freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <1111158779.778.6.camel@topazio.intranet.openit.com.br> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20050315104454.W574@dru.domain.org> <20050315101228.Q25559@knight.ixsystems.net> <793354858.20050315202057@wanadoo.fr> <42383D1F.20005@makeworld.com> <2fd864e05031704593c07d6c1@mail.gmail.com> <1432499378.20050317210733@wanadoo.fr> <2fd864e050318065670005fe4@mail.gmail.com> <1111158779.778.6.camel@topazio.intranet.openit.com.br> Subject: Re: BSD Certification Group press release X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Alexander Chamandy List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 21:35:01 -0000 I've posted it on http://www.bsdfreak.org/ some time ago On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 12:12:59 -0300, Luiz Gustavo wrote: > Since BSD Vault has ignored the press release, I submitted it there > today... > > > On Fri, 2005-03-18 at 11:56, Astrodog wrote: > > On Thu, 17 Mar 2005 21:07:33 +0100, Anthony Atkielski > > wrote: > > > Astrodog writes: > > > > > > > Have you considered, that a certification program done in an open > > > > manner could be incredibly helpful for FreeBSD? > > > > > > If so, it would be a historical first. I've never seen any > > > certification program do that for anything. > > > > > > > I'm not sure I see that as a problem, considering the group that is > > putting this together. > > > > > > You're making some rather large assumptions, the primary one being > > > > that the creation and design of the certification tests will be closed > > > > and no one except the arbiters will be involved. > > > > > > I think it's safe to assume that the group creating and designing the > > > tests will be far smaller than the group expected to take and pass the > > > tests. And offhand I can't think of who would actually be objectively > > > qualified to design the tests in the first place. > > > > > > > The group creating FreeBSD and deciding where it will go is > > significantly smaller than the userbase. As far as someone being > > objectively qualified.... the guy who reads your college entry essay > > isn't objective, your boss isn't objective, cops aren't objective, and > > neither are judges. You go with what you can get, while striving for > > objectivity, even if it isn't possible. > > > > > > The reason certifications are required in some cases is that lets face > > > > it, you COULD be full of shit and know nothing about whatever product > > > > it is. > > > > > > Not if an employer or client investigates your claims. And if he > > > doesn't, certification won't make any difference, anyway. > > > > > > I'm not even sure what you'd certify for FreeBSD ... it's practically > > > identical to the other BSDs, which in turn are practically identical to > > > all other forms of UNIX. Why would anyone seek out a FreeBSD or BSD > > > certification _specifically_? > > > > > > > Not only does this hurt whoever hires you, but it hurts whoever > > > > provides the product you're lying about. > > > > > > If people lie about experience and their clients don't check up, what > > > would prevent them from lying about certification (which their clients > > > wouldn't check up, either)? > > > > If I'm an employer, and I need to terminate a crap employee, and they > > don't list any certs, just experence, it would be quite difficult to > > PROVE that they didn't have experence with "Application X". However, > > if they claim a certification for application X, that they don't > > actually have, I can fire them without notice. > > > > > > > > > As far as the last comment.... People complain about certifications? > > > > > > Some do. Certifications, like unions, are attempts to artificially > > > inflate and/or support a job market through closed-shop restrictions. > > > > > > > One could argue that a college degree has the same effect. So would > > actually knowing other people. I don't see this as an issue at all. :\ > > > > > -- > > > Anthony > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > > !DSPAM:423aec51674781134119474! > > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > -- Best wishes, Alexander G. Chamandy Webmaster www.bsdfreak.org Your Source For BSD News!