Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 18:15:24 -0700 From: Adam Weinberger <adamw@adamw.org> To: bsd-lists@BSDforge.com Cc: Mel Pilgrim <list_freebsd@bluerosetech.com>, Baho Utot <baho-utot@columbus.rr.com>, freebsd-ports@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Flavors *COMPLETELY* break the port system (synth and poudriere are useless) Message-ID: <68B5E3E5-46F0-40E2-A5DC-26D47BAE8AAF@adamw.org> In-Reply-To: <9c19d8e0b571b363d40f8826f05f7332@udns.ultimatedns.net> References: <9c19d8e0b571b363d40f8826f05f7332@udns.ultimatedns.net>
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> On 6 Dec, 2017, at 17:15, Chris H <bsd-lists@BSDforge.com> wrote: >=20 > On Wed, 6 Dec 2017 15:40:27 -0800 "Mel Pilgrim" = <list_freebsd@bluerosetech.com> said >=20 >> On 12/5/2017 2:25 PM, Baho Utot wrote: >> > Thank you for taking a perfectly good system and breaking it as = well as > making it unusable, unstable. You just don't know of all the = countless > hours spent after running an update and taking a week to get = it working > again. >> I manage (currently) 104 FreeBSD systems that are a mix of 10.x and = 11.x, on-metal and VM. I use freebsd-update and poudriere. The biggest = issue in two years was back before I used poudriere and it was when the = default version postgresql change I had to upgrade databases (something = for which postgresql doesn't have automated tools). >> The last time I had a major stability problem with FreeBSD was when I = had a brand new Nocona Xeon system that would get interrupt storms = running 5.x and had to run 6-CURRENT on it for a while because 6.x = introduced MSI support. >> The closest thing to a FreeBSD failure after that was Perl upgrades = exploding all over the place because there was a time when the Ports = Tree didn't handle Perl upgrades gracefully. >> Looking back at two years of stats, all of the unplanned uptime = resets are associated with hypervisor or power outages. >> Experiences will vary, and it's totally fine if FreeBSD is not your = cup of tea, but you're out of line condemning the project as a whole = because your individual experience differed. >> > It really helps motivate all of us users to continue to have to fix = > broken systems due to broken ports system and then be told how great > = things are, brings us so much joy and keeps our attitude positive. >> I really don't know what advice to offer you other than that, from my = observations, there is a very high correlation between people who have = chronic stability problems with FreeBSD and people who insist on not = using the officially endorsed tools and methods. >> (Cue people utterly failing to understand statistics and citing = single data points in 3, 2, 1...) > In all fairness, and this applies to many; > One would not make a change that breaks ABI, except on previously = defined, > and allowed boundaries (specific versions). Yet pkg was effectively = dropped > like a bomb. The affect of which spanned well out of the ports realm, = and > spilled quite heavily into $BASE. Here, now more than 2 OS releases = later, > we're still dealing with the aftermath. This caused substantial = problems > for *many*. Some of whom have moved on -- even long-time supporters, = and > contributors. In all fairness. Those that do not share your fairly = ideal > experiences, should also have a right to express their = views/experiences. > Even when you don't care to hear them. This is, after all, an open > forum/mailing list. No? > Nothing personal, Mel. Just saying. :) This is a mailing list for people who are looking for help using or = creating ports. While the extreme hardships you experienced are regrettable, this does not aid current users in creating or maintaining ports. The right to express views/experiences on this list is constrained by = the need to keep things relevant to creating or using ports. Anger about = flavors is on-topic; personal trauma over pkg simply isn't.=20 Please, folks, rein in the discussion here and get this thread back = on-topic. # Adam --=20 Adam Weinberger adamw@adamw.org https://www.adamw.org
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