From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Jan 2 10:24:51 2003 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D758937B40B for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 10:24:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from post-21.mail.nl.demon.net (post-21.mail.nl.demon.net [194.159.73.20]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE06C43E4A for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 10:24:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from clsn@raggedclown.net) Received: from [212.238.197.102] (helo=mailhost.raggedclown.net) by post-21.mail.nl.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1) id 18UA1K-00079q-00 for chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 02 Jan 2003 18:24:42 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailhost.raggedclown.net (Ragged Clown Mail Gateway [dawn]) with ESMTP id 2E13B1668 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 19:24:41 +0100 (CET) Received: from willow.raggedclown.net (willow.raggedclown.intra [192.168.1.10]) by mailhost.raggedclown.net (Ragged Clown Mail Gateway [dawn]) with ESMTP id 6817FF04 for ; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 19:24:30 +0100 (CET) Received: by willow.raggedclown.net (Ragged Clown Host [willow], from userid 1009) id 230F8225D9; Thu, 2 Jan 2003 19:24:31 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 19:24:31 +0100 From: Cliff Sarginson To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Fish ? Who mentioned Fish ? Message-ID: <20030102182431.GA535@raggedclown.net> References: <20030101140530.GA11468@raggedclown.net> <20030101152046.D32360@papagena.rockefeller.edu> <20030101232731.GD12408@raggedclown.net> <20030102162644.GA1426@papagena.rockefeller.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20030102162644.GA1426@papagena.rockefeller.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS 0.3.12pre8 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Jan 02, 2003 at 11:26:44AM -0500, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > I thought you'd left this list. > Well I have, sort of. Waiting for Majordomo to wake up. > > But Europeans, in general, with the exception of the British Government, > > despise America. It is so fond of itself, so sure it is right. > > Sounds very much like you, that last line. Have you conducted a survey > of Europeans? > You see that is exactly, precisely, the point I was making. My son, with no prompting from me, regards Americans as stupid. Not all of them of course, but as a land besotted by it's idea that it ia always right, that *it* is allowed to do anything because it is America. It goes on and on about freedom. Do you think anyone in the world, who thinks, was not revolted by the world trade centre destruction. That anyone who cares about human beings could possibly understand that ? No. Nobody with a wit of sense would understand that. But what is America's reaction ? Start a war, Bush is itching to pull the trigger. No-one seems to realise that America, through it's arrogance, it's foreign policy, the violence it uses against the world, is a despised nation. It is, and no I have not held a poll, but I know a bit about Europe. I have lived/worked in much of it. A few years ago, before the so-called end of the cold-war, a survey was done in America about what young people perceived in the world. Do you know that when a lot of the children were asked to point out Moscow on the map, they pointed at a city called Paris, France ? These children are the B17 pilots of the future. God, I hope I am not under them when they fly over. I am old enough to remember the 60's. I was there, around. I saw the pictures of Vietnamese children, little kids, whose flesh was burning off from Napalm. A present from President Johnson. I remember as a young child, who went to school with many black kids, being staggered to hear about "bussing", about the Ku Kluz Klan, about the apalling treatment of native Americans. I look at a land, where you, alone of Western Nations still allow a state to execute, in public, people. That of all the cities I have been to where have I seen the most crime, violence, fear, poverty and degradation. Good old New York. But the worse of all. What gets my craw. Is that the world is kind of forbidden from criticising the good old US. That is almost an unpardonable offense. I have a lot of American friends, I have read a lot of American books, I listen to American music, I appreciate America's cultural, artistic and scientific contributions to the world. But read your own critics, read Hunter S. Thompson. Learn about lands where you are not asked for medical insurance proof before you are treated after a road accident. Learn about lands that do not hate America, but hate it's incorrigble, unshakeable, mindless faith in itself. Many Americans question this themselves. Everything is not free in America :) And the right to bear arms. This is bollocks, and is a gross misinterpretation of the American Constitution. Your constitution does not give you the right to carry weapons. Read it, I have. Listen to your writers, your singers, your poets, your film-makers. Listen to the madness you support. Want to know why I am so angry ? Because your president is about to, given the chance, lead all of us into another world war. When the boys come home in a box..Bin Laden is a mad shit-head, so is Mr, sorry, President Bush. Someone should teach him how to finish a sentence. I expect the CIA to be at my door, any moment now... I will repeat this. That Vietnamese child, burning from Napalm. That is *your* freedom. It was not his. -- Regards Cliff Sarginson The Netherlands [ This mail has been checked as virus-free ] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message