From nobody Sat Feb 7 01:41:47 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4f7DDf2R4Lz6QwgB for ; Sat, 07 Feb 2026 01:40:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vimanuelt@fastmail.fm) Received: from fout-b2-smtp.messagingengine.com (fout-b2-smtp.messagingengine.com [202.12.124.145]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4f7DDd0vsYz3VNj for ; Sat, 07 Feb 2026 01:40:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vimanuelt@fastmail.fm) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=fastmail.fm header.s=fm3 header.b=fy8jgZJ8; dkim=pass header.d=messagingengine.com header.s=fm3 header.b=QxC51VlO; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=fastmail.fm; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of vimanuelt@fastmail.fm designates 202.12.124.145 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=vimanuelt@fastmail.fm Received: from phl-compute-02.internal (phl-compute-02.internal [10.202.2.42]) by mailfout.stl.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D5901D0011E for ; Fri, 6 Feb 2026 20:40:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from phl-imap-01 ([10.202.2.91]) by phl-compute-02.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 06 Feb 2026 20:40:31 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fastmail.fm; h= cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:content-type:date:date :from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:subject:subject:to:to; s=fm3; t=1770428431; x=1770514831; bh=ZB6O/A5MwT3VOUVgtMu1CY0hT0hJaI5OhL/wVNDQE9k=; b= fy8jgZJ8GnMXlLY5tybkoLUOOhnuyvRQFi5gz3v0gGoD7OjjygtnoTNqHM4S2wba WxRIYtit4j/gin2X9/bsPx63jsRT7LB8azo0cvx/Fr9Py0udRx7WCAEWdFMbWpn1 gAcOBjzFntmp7GhhcAdymBDuLA4yknJUeCeLUWa6fnEBps6jwPHFH16EGV9tkoMF AxU/Z0S2XWtvGXaZ1alZKgl3zpHrHMvJW/vGyK5ZkHGvny1VHogox1V1GklJRGlM 7Wby10jwYJKk/UJO6EkUh9VuJTDoX8bg6bLFWbsV4xALFSX52w3Qli1qZI2v/v0b umdaH6h6SnMgVxsS0mPwOw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :content-type:date:date:feedback-id:feedback-id:from:from :in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :reply-to:subject:subject:to:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender :x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; t=1770428431; x=1770514831; bh=Z B6O/A5MwT3VOUVgtMu1CY0hT0hJaI5OhL/wVNDQE9k=; b=QxC51VlOsn7DSWool NPoCj7pWKsfE1nm7WD0TQQKnl6Ebiczu1FtjEb6h6h/jzQO1feoYWS4G1o84KEJQ ergg/v67yDvwvPxPuZ4L2pXbgEyh8HMKmV+4Jbig4xzwhEZlfZRcmn6APWTBgmKF soKl5qbco/FG7D+crct4E39L9COwd/7pmp9KsVq/uU2OWxN+CZluYIIKlk3OjVKJ FfX1Fvor1Wo5TdIGw/cIFbNooHPnpBBxt7I9NJ/blD8xBN7/+vIq7bWDsscphBHx ite/Oz5wIGiRmkZxDUuY/oInvEagYQ7a1/7J1tlazJad0nFkl7gT5bSZecNcb04F B4DeQ== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeefgedrtddtgddukeeljeehucetufdoteggodetrf dotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgenuceu rghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucenucfjughrpefoggffhffvkfgjfhfutgfgsehtqhertd ertdejnecuhfhrohhmpehvihhmrghnuhgvlhhtuceovhhimhgrnhhuvghlthesfhgrshht mhgrihhlrdhfmheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvghrnhepieehueeggeehkeekvdfghfetfeehgf fghfffgfekueehffekgfeuieeggeeludffnecuffhomhgrihhnpehgihhthhhusgdrtgho mhenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehvih hmrghnuhgvlhhtsehfrghsthhmrghilhdrfhhmpdhnsggprhgtphhtthhopedupdhmohgu vgepshhmthhpohhuthdprhgtphhtthhopehfrhgvvggsshguqdhpkhhgsggrshgvsehfrh gvvggsshgurdhorhhg X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: if8e14258:Fastmail Received: by mailuser.phl.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id DD6B018C0067; Fri, 6 Feb 2026 20:40:30 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface List-Id: Packaging the FreeBSD base system List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-pkgbase List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-pkgbase@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-ThreadId: AXmonOnAhB2k Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2026 10:41:47 +0900 From: vimanuelt To: "freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org" Message-Id: <2e96a48c-b4e7-47d9-b1b7-bfc3ce789664@app.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: FreBSD pkgbase vs distsets. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.09 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[fastmail.fm,none]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[fastmail.fm:s=fm3,messagingengine.com:s=fm3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:202.12.124.128/27]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[202.12.124.145:from]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[fastmail.fm]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[messagingengine.com:dkim,fastmail.fm:dkim]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[fastmail.fm]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:151847, ipnet:202.12.124.0/24, country:AU]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_ALL(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[fastmail.fm:+,messagingengine.com:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4f7DDd0vsYz3VNj X-Spamd-Bar: ---- As an aside, as FreeBSD moves away from packagesets and toward pkgbase, = it may be useful to consider whether there are other directions that cou= ld complement this transition without committing the base system to a si= ngle distribution model. Packagesets were introduced to help administrators reason about the base= system as a coherent whole, to control upgrade scope, and to avoid part= ial or inconsistent updates. The underlying issue they addressed was not= packaging itself, but the difficulty of maintaining a clear and stable = system boundary in a mutable environment. One possible alternative is to treat the base system as a set of immutab= le, versioned artifacts rather than as a mutable collection of packages.= In such a model, the base OS would be built, published, and consumed as= a coherent unit with a stable identity. Updates would involve switching= between known system states instead of incrementally modifying a live e= nvironment. This shifts consistency checks to build and publication time= rather than upgrade time, and largely avoids the class of problems that= packagesets were designed to mitigate. This approach aligns with several long-standing FreeBSD values, includin= g reproducibility, explicit interfaces, and administrative clarity. It m= ay also reduce upgrade risk and make rollback and recovery easier to rea= son about. Importantly, it would not replace pkg or ports. Instead, it w= ould clarify their role by keeping them outside the base system boundary= , where flexibility and change are expected and acceptable. Pkgbase already moves toward better base system lifecycle management wit= hin a package-oriented framework. An artifact-oriented perspective could= be seen as a further step, changing the upgrade semantics rather than r= efining them. It does not recreate packagesets, but it may make their or= iginal purpose largely unnecessary by eliminating partial base system up= dates altogether. Whether this is desirable is an open question. It depends on whether Fre= eBSD wishes to continue supporting fine-grained, in-place mutation of th= e base system, or whether it is worth exploring a model where the base s= ystem is something you select, verify, and replace as a whole. These are questions I am exploring and evaluating using prototypes. Best regards, Vester "Vic" Thacker On Fri, Feb 6, 2026, at 19:22, hackee wrote: > Hello guys! > > As far as I understand, FreeBSD 16 is planned to drop distsets support=20 > and move entirely to pkgbase. I am writing to ask you to reconsider=20 > this decision. > I maintain a small FreeBSD-based project for my own hardware ( for=20 > amd64 platform, code can be seen here:=20 > https://github.com/h4ckee/CoreBSD ), that depends heavily on distsets,=20 > and migrating it to a pkgbase-only model would be highly inconvenient.=20 > I build custom compact ISO image based on that code. My equipment is=20 > for personal use, laptops and a server, but I'm hoping to create a=20 > small storage solution based on the compact FreeBSD distribution and=20 > may use it on my employer's equipment. There are also other companies=20 > and projects that use FreeBSD to build their own distributions=E2=80=94= such as=20 > appliances and embedded systems=E2=80=94that similarly rely on distset= s. I=20 > would like to propose keeping distsets intact while continuing to offe= r=20 > pkgbase as an alternative for those who wish to use it, in the same wa= y=20 > it is done in the FreeBSD 15 release. I hope you will consider this=20 > request favorably. > >> > > Best regards, > Tech. Eng. Sergei Praskovin.