From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 22 22:38:16 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99FFB16A4BF for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 22:38:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.richardflanagan.com.au (gateway.richardflanagan.com.au [203.149.71.45]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 220E343FBD for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 22:38:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from andy@richardflanagan.com.au) Received: from Rockstar.richardflanagan.com.au (unknown [192.168.0.233]) by mail.richardflanagan.com.au (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2124E218BCC for ; Tue, 23 Sep 2003 15:40:32 +1000 (EST) From: Andy K To: FreeBSD Questions Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.0.8 Date: 23 Sep 2003 15:32:01 +1000 Message-Id: <1064295122.63215.5.camel@Rockstar.richardflanagan.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: FreeBSD, Linux and any other os beside Microsoft X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: andy@richardflanagan.com.au List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 05:38:16 -0000 Hiya Ajax Munroe Seems that you don't have a lot of patience :) I never made a bootable CD - I just downloaded the .iso images and went nuts. Sure it took a little getting used to, I also come from a windows environment and am stuck in one everyday at work.BSD is for everyone, it's just that Bill has taken away our opportunity to learn what we are doing. Should you persevere with BSD, you will find that windows is purely a display manager not a true computer - FreeBSD is both. It also has the ability to do a great deal more than give a pretty desktop to play games on. Have a mess around with some of the command line stuff (yeah it seems boring at first, when you get the hang of it, it feels like a real accomplishment) that gear is hardcore and FAST. Don't get me wrong, if you prefer windows, well... each to their own. I too had quite some trouble setting up BSD for the first time, but now I am very glad I went through it all, I too though I was 'computer literate' till I tried BSD, now I feel like a total newbie.BTW - I believe that windows would be a mad OS is Bill would make it open source. Also, If you get to X, try QVFM, LOL - you will really feel at home :)Check it out at www.qvwm.org. Another biggie for FreeBSD is the ports collection - being from windows you haven't seen anything like this before. Ports rawk. They are my personal favourite feature with FreeBSD, which outlines my next point - cost. When the previous sysadmin here (yep previous, installing FreeBSD gave me the skills needed to take over, as I mentioned earlier, I thought that I was quite handy with a PC, FreeBSD humbled my opinion of myself) told management that a firewall was going to cost in excess of ten thousand dollars plus tax, they hit the roof, as we had already wasted around $50K on M$ software. Enter FreeBSD. 1K later (including all parts and labour) not only did we have a firewall that our ISP couldn't find (they actually rang and asked what was going on, usage was happening, but there was no host, I love blackholes!)That's how I became the new sysadmin. And he was a LINUX man ! meh. Now we have saved a fortune - BSD is compatible with M$ and makes a great file server with SAMBA as the interface.We also save money as we now host our own webpage (thanks Apache), mail (thanks Postfix), firewall (thanks Squid)and caching, which is steadilly cutting down our bill each month. The server will cache all our windows updates, virus updates etc. etc. You also mention partitions. What's hard about that - incidentally it is documented in the handbook. Had you put that on questions whilst installing, I'll bet you received a lot of email with RTFM in them. I have done windows partitions (it is easy, but you still have to do the work, you will also see that the FreeBSD partition system is set in such a way so that any user may totally crash their OS, yet you can still log in as root, repair the problem and return to work. Windows would require a full reinstall.Not sure if you realise it, but windows is full of crap you will never use, with BSD you pick what you want and how you want it to work. Much more efficient, and much faster. Viruses - what ?????. BSD doesn't recognise em.Go nuts MS Blaster. You can't hurt me :) The install difficulties are just a learning curve (remember the first time you switched windows on? Seemed a little alien, K it's running, now what - ohh surf the web.Error 505 windows has crashed, would you like to play another game?) The first install of BSD took me two weeks. I install win 98 on a laptop here three weeks ago, and set BSD on install at the same time.Windows was still installing while BSD was on the web installing some interesting ports.It just takes a little getting used to. Think I have the hang of it now. Yep BSD is a jigsaw puzzle, but you get a nice picture when you are finished/ Windows - well Bill comes in and does the puzzle for you. What's the fun in that ???? Windows has to be ready to load on any PC anywhere in the world. As a result, you end up with a mountain of rubbish that makes your system slow and buggy. Must be the cause of many windows crashes I'm sure. BSD doesn't crash. It just doesn't. Windows is user friendly in the fact that you don't need to know what a computer is to run it. I guess that's why the business world has embraced it. No work, no setup costs, and now with XP,as you say, stick the disc in and you are done. No knowledge required.We have eXPensive Pro workstations here, and I installed them.Talk about an easy job alright. Pop that disc in, drink coffee and done.I wouldn't mind betting M$'s next OS will be on your Hdd with voice activation. Don't even pop a disc in, just say INSTALL. As I said earlier, each to their own, and I do agree to some extent. Windows is made for convenience, and is quite good at what it is made for (even if Bill did steal most of it from UNIX and *BSD, so I am told and read on the net all the time) yet if you have a little curiosity, desire speed, performance, stability and the ability to own your system (BSD will do whatever you want, you just have to know how to ask it!)then *BSD is for you. I still believe that Windows would be a great OS if only Bill would release it to the open source community. Those guy's are real good and there is a great deal more developers for UNIX and BSD than there is for windows (I doubt if even Bill could afford the amount of people that contribute to BSD) and if that isn't enough, ring the M$ help line. That'll put you of M$ for life !!! Lastly, I would like to mention the handbook. You say you want an OS that is easy to use. The handbook is indeed scary. 900 pages of 'light reading' isn't my idea of a good time either (If any of you BSD developers are listening - how about an easy to use condensed version - nobody wants to read for four weeks before they use their OS!!!) Some of that stuff is over anybody's head, especially if you are migrating from Windows, or any OS that isn't like UNIX - (shame BeOS died) Don't knbow if you have heard of the 'cheat sheets' but they sure make life easy, and give you that head-start into BSD so that you don't have to read for a month before you may use your OS. They have made my life much easier, and are a great reference for problem solving - depending on what you wish to do of course. That's my two cents :) Hope you stay with us, perhaps Linux is more for you (even if only as a stepping stone to understand BSD a little better, not the same, but the principals will point you in the right direction)However I honestly believe that you will find that BSD is the superior OS amongst all of it's competitors. Hey install it just to say THERE I DID IT. The community here is refreshingly helpful, great people who always try to help you achieve you goal (even if it's how do I change a wallpaper ? post that and watch your replies roll in !!) You have stumbled on a truly magic OS, don't turn away, the initial problems and learning curve are worth the trouble.Well worth it. Wait till you look at ports, nothing like this on the market !! FreeBSD IS fun and easy to use. Good Luck Hope we hear from you again Andrew Kozak FreeBSD Rox my Sox !!!!! I dont have a question but I would like to make a statement. I downloaded Freebsd version 5.0 release and unpacked it in great anticipation. I made a bootable CD (the best I could, It's not as easy as making a bootable windows CD) put the cd in my rom and found that BSD is not for me. Look, Im not trying to put BSD down or anything, I would love to have it on my computer fully working so that I could use something other than Windows! Im by no means bored with Windows, I find new and exciting things out with it all the time.I feel that im pretty literate when it comes to computers, which brings me to this: You people have to make a product that is just slightly more user friendly.Cant you think of a way to auto-mount your os like windows? Setting up your os is like trying to work your way through a jigsaw puzzle.(Windows even partitions your drive for you) If someone expects to challenge the makers of Windows they are going to have to come up with a user friendly system like Windows where you have an easy command format instead of what your trying to do. I mean come on, first you have to figure out what to partition the drive in because you dont explain any of this, then you have to mount everything,which is beyond the average users comprehension, then you have to figure out commands to pass along to the kernel..etc...etc...etc. With Windows all you do is stick in the disk and it's all pretty straight forward from there on out. Please, if you could just tell me of one of your systems thats a little more user friendly I would love to use it, and tell all my friends about it too so that they can spread the word about the new operating system thats fun and easy to use.