Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 14:16:14 -0600 From: Nikolas Britton <freebsd@nbritton.org> To: Ceri Davies <ceri@submonkey.net> Cc: freebsd-www@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Rework of the FreeBSD website [was:FreeBSD'sVisualIdentity:Outdated?] Message-ID: <41E5858E.10600@nbritton.org> In-Reply-To: <20050112195203.GW49329@submonkey.net> References: <9FC79942-5DE3-11D9-BEAB-000A95C969C6@zumbrunn.com> <AC17F3AB-5EFE-11D9-BEAB-000A95C969C6@zumbrunn.com> <20050108144127.GA75006@sumuk.de> <8B30EFDE-6195-11D9-A996-000A95C969C6@zumbrunn.com> <d9175cad05010914171ee95c7e@mail.gmail.com> <20050110180345.GC49329@submonkey.net> <F7F917E2-63BA-11D9-B8D2-000A95C969C6@zumbrunn.com> <41E50DE3.5050105@nbritton.org> <20050112155215.GU49329@submonkey.net> <41E55A4D.4090507@nbritton.org> <20050112195203.GW49329@submonkey.net>
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Ceri Davies wrote: >On Wed, Jan 12, 2005 at 11:11:41AM -0600, Nikolas Britton wrote: > > >>Ceri Davies wrote: >> >> >>>On Wed, Jan 12, 2005 at 05:45:39AM -0600, Nikolas Britton wrote: >>> >>> >>>>Chris Zumbrunn wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>On Jan 10, 2005, at 7:03 PM, Ceri Davies wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>On Sun, Jan 09, 2005 at 04:17:01PM -0600, Eric Kjeldergaard wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>Something we do a lot at my workplace (web development firm, mostly) >>>>>>>is to have underlines on rollovers and (on some sites unselected, >>>>>>>depending of course on user preference). I would prefer to not see >>>>>>>the blue underlined if we could avoid it. Of course with the modern >>>>>>>css technology, it's not an issue because any user that wants blue >>>>>>>underlined links (vision impairment, personal preference, etc) can >>>>>>>override the link colour via his/her client. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>I am sure that people with vision impairment would love to mess around >>>>>>trying to edit a custom stylesheet because you don't like blue anchors. >>>>>>I quite like the rest of this patch, but removing the underline from >>>>>>links is evil. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>People with vision impairment set their browser to override the >>>>>stylesheet, so the web works best for them personally. This is not >>>>>something that is specific to a particular site. I would argue that >>>>>underlining links impairs the vision of everybody else ;-) >>>>> >>>>>The important thing is consistency: If it's blue it's a link, if it's >>>>>not blue it's not a link. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>This link should be helpful: http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20040510.html >>>> >>>> >>>Thank you (I am slightly shocked that it took two days for someone to >>>agree with me). The W3c agree: http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10/#gl-color >>> >>> >>> >>I not trying to agree with anyone, just providing reference to what the >>experts think. Also you have to realize the target user of this >>website, 90% (more like 99.999%) have at least some technical >>background. Therefore they know how the web works and what and where >>links are. As far as the blind, what good is the website if they can't >>use the product?, AFAIK FreeBSD has no built-in accessibility and those >>blind people that did manage to get it installed are again going to have >>a technical background and will know how to navigate the web (the only >>thing they need are ALT/Title tags). This leaves only color blind people >>that we need to accommodate, text based web browsers (which don't >>display links as underlined or real link colors, pull up the FreeBSD >>site in Links), and old people (I group in the low-vision users here). >>So the only thing I agree with from Jakob Nielsen site is that of link >>color, normal text as the same color as links, using hover if links are >>not underlined, and the old people stuff. I don't care if links are >>underlined or not. >> >> > >Everything above boils down to "I don't see how this makes it hard for >people, so it's probably ok". I don't imagine that blind users (of >which there are quite a few) could care less whether links are >underlined or not, but if having links underlined makes it easier >for one person to find them (and I count towards that, so it's already >fulfilled) for whatever reason then they should be underlined. > >How about all the people who *don't* want them underlined do the thing >with the user-agent style sheets and see how keen they are on imposing >it on others then? > >In short: I will not commit, and will request a backout of, any patch >that turns off underlined links on the website. I may not stop short of >backing it out myself either, and with that said I'll try not to reply >to this thread any more, for the sake of everyone's sanity. > >Ceri > > Like I said earlier, I don't care ether way :-) ... So reading between the lines does this mean you'll commit the patch (do you have the power to do this?) if he underlines the links?
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