From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Fri Jan 4 22:30:08 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87818143C07B for ; Fri, 4 Jan 2019 22:30:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kp@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F2C6F87530; Fri, 4 Jan 2019 22:30:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kp@FreeBSD.org) Received: from venus.codepro.be (venus.codepro.be [5.9.86.228]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.codepro.be", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) (Authenticated sender: kp) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C6EBC3DB7; Fri, 4 Jan 2019 22:30:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kp@FreeBSD.org) Received: from [100.67.82.121] (122-56-232-0.mobile.spark.co.nz [122.56.232.0]) (Authenticated sender: kp) by venus.codepro.be (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 02C2F8CCD; Fri, 4 Jan 2019 23:30:05 +0100 (CET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: Speculative: Rust for base system components From: Kristof Provost X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (16C101) In-Reply-To: <361CCB81-AEB6-4EAC-9604-CD8F4C63948C@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2019 11:29:55 +1300 Cc: Eric McCorkle , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <4867C05A-BCEF-4F1C-965D-84056092D70C@FreeBSD.org> References: <201901021829.x02IT4Kc064169@slippy.cwsent.com> <361CCB81-AEB6-4EAC-9604-CD8F4C63948C@gmail.com> To: Enji Cooper X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: F2C6F87530 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.97 / 15.00]; local_wl_from(0.00)[FreeBSD.org]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.97)[-0.966,0]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11403, ipnet:2610:1c1:1::/48, country:US]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2019 22:30:08 -0000 > On 4 Jan 2019, at 05:22, Enji Cooper wrote: >=20 >=20 >> On Jan 3, 2019, at 04:46, Eric McCorkle wrote: >>=20 >> On 1/2/19 1:29 PM, Cy Schubert wrote: >>=20 >>>> I'm all for discussion and criticism of this, that's why I posted it, >>>> but I don't think these kinds of false equivalences are helpful. >>>=20 >>> Actually it is helpful. Without a solid proposal of a new feature or=20 >>> userland utility to be imported into base that requires the support of=20= >>> a language not already in base, the implication of the original email=20= >>> starting this thread was to rewrite FreeBSD using rust. >>=20 >> That doesn't represent what I wrote at all, and is bordering on a >> strawman argument. Nobody to my knowledge is suggesting rewriting >> everything, nor would that be possible. >>=20 >>> In reality we should rely more on ports. Over the years this business=20= >>> has become more fragmented. Each year we see new languages being=20 >>> developed and used. Importing new shiny objects into base is=20 >>> unsustainable. IMO the momentum is behind containerization,=20 >>> specifically kubernetes and docker-like containers. That is today. The=20= >>> next year or two will introduce new technologies and shiny objects=20 >>> which we will likely need to introduce here to remain relevant. We=20 >>> should be looking to reduce the footprint of base, introduce new=20 >>> technologies in ports (ports are much easier to build from scratch,=20 >>> maintain, and update than base). Additionally the idea of meta-ports=20 >>> that install groups of packages would make building purpose-built=20 >>> systems a breeze for our user base, similar to what anaconda does, like=20= >>> a FreeBSD based LAMP (FAMP) stack package that installs all the=20 >>> necessary bits with one pkg install command. >>=20 >> And that seems to be the point of convergence in all this, which is fine >> by me. I was looking to discuss the options and figure out the best way >> forward. >=20 > Going back to my previous statement, I think writing a service monitor (to= work alongside init and rc) in modern C++/rust would be a good item to unde= rtake. >=20 > I=E2=80=99d be willing to do this with someone else, as a research project= /to demo how rust could be used. I think that=E2=80=99s an excellent idea, and would be interested in trying t= o help out with it.=20 Regards, Kristof=