From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat Mar 20 03:13:19 2021 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DB64570073 for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2021 03:13:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from weaver@riseup.net) Received: from mx1.riseup.net (mx1.riseup.net [198.252.153.129]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "*.riseup.net", Issuer "Sectigo RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4F2QnV1crWz4r5x for ; Sat, 20 Mar 2021 03:13:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from weaver@riseup.net) Received: from fews2.riseup.net (fews2-pn.riseup.net [10.0.1.84]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.riseup.net", Issuer "Sectigo RSA Domain Validation Secure Server CA" (not verified)) by mx1.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4F2QnS11sRzDxyJ for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2021 20:13:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=riseup.net; s=squak; t=1616209996; bh=H3ac6wMCxbSoAibr+BVtUwwkN/emFC/a3XDxO7RI16A=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=dinFf7oFVKIpCR+3L1dScoxnwRqFIaHASfxr2F3gbQQUYRZnTAKdYNFk1634Cx0O8 SHyEYO833IaefQDAROUkGOhKpPhJXwL6U3hXZ9kFn1qO3QQ/QIH45UlKcfPp8Hx6Cn ltJaShIi3K7AZ3QwFQxDuXfLEjiGiuqYdObGbqwA= X-Riseup-User-ID: 4E839760A1DF3AB10F98C5D7DAE9617E82199264C289E6DF340CB3A2E64830C7 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by fews2.riseup.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4F2QnR6Thsz1xmR for ; Fri, 19 Mar 2021 20:13:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2021 20:13:15 -0700 From: Weaver To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: OS to replace FreeBSD In-Reply-To: References: <20210319101040.00005c35@seibercom.net> <6054BE1B.50706@gmail.com> <20210319130249.000042a1@seibercom.net> <5a8cf0be-646a-a433-2428-9700a47c1bf0@att.net> <20210319140448.00007521@seibercom.net> <20210319213214.4f8ddf55@archlinux> <259fba3aa7665be79a056fb9f5bc1825@riseup.net> <06d8d9ae876bbdaf11fe7691fd2d4fad@riseup.net> Message-ID: <445edf2bbcb1e7e24071b89ce830927f@riseup.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4F2QnV1crWz4r5x X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=riseup.net header.s=squak header.b=dinFf7oF; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=riseup.net; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of weaver@riseup.net designates 198.252.153.129 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=weaver@riseup.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.10 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(0.00)[198.252.153.129:from]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[riseup.net:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[riseup.net,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-1.000]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RBL_DBL_DONT_QUERY_IPS(0.00)[198.252.153.129:from]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16652, ipnet:198.252.153.0/24, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[198.252.153.129:from]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[riseup.net:s=squak]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; SPAMHAUS_ZRD(0.00)[198.252.153.129:from:127.0.2.255]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[riseup.net:dkim]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-questions] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.34 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2021 03:13:19 -0000 On 20-03-2021 12:31, Aryeh Friedman wrote: > On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 10:06 PM Weaver wrote: > >> On 20-03-2021 11:20, Aryeh Friedman wrote: >>> I am convinced you don't know how to read or don't read what you >> quote >>> because nothing in what I said was setting standards.... For >> example I >>> never said that you couldn't use Unix for simple stuff like word >>> processing (or latex in your case).... If anything you're the one >> who >>> assumes it the only OS that can do that stuff.... But there are >> plenty >>> of technical/math editors for all OS's now you saying that >> "latex/xml" >>> is the only way to do it (you're own words btw) just doesn't know >> what >>> options are available and on what platforms.... If you don't >> believe >>> me about libreoffice for math editing for example I went back to >>> school (100% online course work) about 15 years ago and did all my >>> math homework (including some pretty hairy matrix math and >>> differential equations) using the equation editor in libreoffice >> (it >>> has only gotten better since then)... Am I forcing you to use it >> or >>> anything else no but you are saying that latex/xml is the only >> way... >>> so who is setting standards? (not me) >> >> No I didn't say anything like that. >> Now you're distinctly bending reality. > > Yes you did say just that when you implied that you use Unix for latex > only and that no other OS was suitable. No, I didn't. I neither said nor implied. >>> For your purposes modern Windows systems are just as fast/solid > > First what part of "your purposes" is not clear?!?! You are not doing > high-end client-server, embedded systems or anything else that Unix is > uniquely well suite for your doing glorified word processing.... so > for your purposes (not some other purpose) Windows is just as fast and > solid as any OS. > >> If that were right, it would be employed by the New York and London >> stock exchanges and the International Space Station, but it isn't. >> I can't even begin to imagine what a frozen screen would mean up >> there. > > 1. The ISS *DOES* use Windows for end user applications (which is what > it good at) and uses Unix for the control systems (which it is good > at): > https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2016/03/15/why-does-the-iss-use-windows-os/?sh=20fa6b3e6926 > 2. Like the ISS the NYSE uses both Windows and Unix with Unix doing > the *INFRASTRUCTURE* and Windows being the most common UI traders and > other staff use to interface to the trading system > https://www.quora.com/Why-do-traders-all-use-PCs-besides-the-fact-that-there%E2%80%99s-a-ton-of-software-that-is-PC-only > (it should be noted that the super fast high speed trading machines > usually have *NO* OS on them since that would add a few microseconds > of overhead which is completely unacceptable for HFT) > >>> (security is still the one area Unix is still better)... But for >> stuff >>> like webapps there really is no real alternative then Unix because >> of >>> it's infrastructure/backend origins and focus.... So yes the only >>> place where I might be setting standards is in areas where there >> are >>> no real alternatives except the "standard" way of doing things... >>> >>> That is not to say that Unix is the "right" way to do those things >> and >>> for most non-development work it is not the "right" way due to not >>> having "no assembly required" pre-canned solutions for said tasks >>> while Windows does. >> >> If that were true, I wouldn't be doing things the way I do. >> I have yet to see a LaTeX presentation level produced by Word, and >> doubt >> I ever will. > > I never said word I said Libreoffice (the fact you said word is one > reason why I say you don't read). Libreoffice does support LaTex. You're more convoluted in a conversation than a corkscrew. >> It's also better for presentation of math equations, one of the >> reasons >> it was created in the first place. > > Latex was actually created by Knuth originally because he used a very > unorthodox notation in "The Art of Computer Programming" that no > existing equation editor at the time (or even now) supports and thus > instead us using standard CS notation he went down a 10 year rabbit > hole making LaTex. I think you're capable of creating any alternate reality in order to endorse your philosophies of convenience. There's nothing further to discuss, here. Cheers! Harry -- `The World is not dangerous because of those who do harm but because of those who look on without doing anything'. -- Albert Einstein