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Date:      Tue, 21 Nov 2000 20:06:13 -0800
From:      Chip <chip@wiegand.org>
To:        "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" <freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG>
Subject:   Re: 'find' is running all by itself
Message-ID:  <3A1B4635.B11990D0@wiegand.org>
References:  <3A19E749.E9E048E2@wiegand.org> <00112117251600.37336@shalimar.net.au> <3A1A880A.25BC4A01@wiegand.org> <00112212092503.05727@shalimar.net.au>

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Zero Sum wrote:
> 
> On Wednesday 22 November 2000 01:34, Chip wrote:
> > Zero Sum wrote:
> > >
> > > On Tuesday 21 November 2000 16:15, Chip wrote:
> > > > John P. Campbell wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > A look at /etc/periodic/daily on my box shows that find runs quite
> > > often.
> > > > > It's a good chance that is what you are seeing.
> > > > >
> > > > > <rubina>: jpc % cd /etc/periodic/daily/
> > > > > <rubina>: daily % grep find *
> > > >
> > > > I tried this command as you have it shown above and get
> > > > daily: command not found
> > > > Besides that, in my daily directory is a whole bunch of stuff,
> > > > and
> > > > find is not amoung any of it. Should it be? It's not any big
> > > > deal,
> > > > I'm just curious where it's starting and what is telling it to
> > > > start. None of the other fbsd machines do this.
> > > >
> > >
> > > This is a joke, right?
> > >
> > > You didn't really fail to recognise the '%' as a c-shell prompt, did
> you?
> > >
> > > You didn't type "daily % grep find *" instead of "grep find *", did you?
> > >
> > > You weren't really expecting the 'find' command to be there were you?
> > >
> > > If the answer to ANY one of the aboce was yes, then you need to get
> > > yourself some basic books on Unix.  Asking questions here won't do you
> much
> > > good as you won't understand the answers.
> > >
> > > The explanation that was given you was most probably accurate.  You
> > > mightcheck the system time, though.
> > >
> > > Geoff
> > > --
> > > count@shalimar.net.au
> > > Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione
> >
> > I am quite sure that you too were once a beginner in the *nix
> > environment. I doubt very much that you were born with all this
> > great store house of knowledge. Maybe it has been so long that
> > you have forgotten those days of learning though, and now don't
> > have the patience for people who are learning, so feel compelled
> > to lash out at them in a childish manner. A serious question
> > should only be returned with a serious answer, which most people
> > on this list do. You appear to be an exception, I'm sorry.
> >
> 
> You misjudge me.  I was genuinely incredulous. I don't consider that I have
> "great storehouse of knowlege".  And no, I wasn't born with what I do have,
> but I was born learning to look at what I see.  I have plenty of sympathy
> for beginners, and I provide quite a bit of help to those I can help both
> on list and (mainly) off-list. In fact I usually pick the beginners to
> help, because they need it most and for five years I wrote and taught Unix
> courses in the industry.

Okay, my apologies for the misjudgement

> However, it is a lot easier to help people who think and analyise what they
> see.  For example, you were provided with two lines of shell code, and you
> completely failed to look at it with any degree of analysis.
> 
> The lines were...
> 
> <rubina>: jpc % cd /etc/periodic/daily/
> <rubina>: daily % grep find *

In my narrow 'unix' experience, the only 'unix' boxes I have seen
are
the ones here in my house (six of 'em, all freebsd). The all have
prompts
that look like this -
$	or
chip#
I've never seen one like the above examples.

 
> Now the first one is a 'cd' command.  Surely that is obvious.  I could not
> and cannot believe that it could be misconstrued.  That tells you that
> "<rubina>: jpc % " was the prompt.  Is there any way in which this could be
> more obvious?  Is there any way in which you could have failed to interpret
> this if you *looked* at it?

yes it is obvious that it is a cd command, I know a cd command

> For the second line, the prompt has clearly changed and reflects the
> directory to which the last command changed.  Note the 'daily'.  Again,
> what could be more obvious when you *look*.
> 
> This leaves only "grep find * " as the command to use.  Not "daily %....".
> This isn't a matter of "great storehouse of knowlege", it is a matter of
> basic attitude.  "Thinking about things" vs "silver platter".

Right, as I mentioned above, I haven't seen a prompt with a : in
it, so was
confused. I did get it straight and answered the other person who
responed 
with a message to that effect.

> I said to you "If the answer to ANY one of the aboce was yes, then you need
> to get yourself some basic books on Unix.  Asking questions here won't do
> you much good as you won't understand the answers".  Doesn't the above
> *prove* that statement.  You asked a question, you got a good reply and you
> didn't even understand the most basic two lines of code that could probably
> be written. A "cd" and a "grep".  I gave you good (and necessary) advice.
> if you want to take it as a put down, that's your problem.

I guess I looked at it this way - a question being answered with
a question
is not being answered at all. Now, I am the type of person who
expects a 
statement for answer, such as 'You might try this-n-this-n-this'
or 'Take
a look at such-n-such'. To me asking 'This is a joke right?' is
not an 
answer at all, by any stretch of the imagination.

> When I first encountered Unix, there was no help available, I was in the
> "commercial" world and the only access to the internet was in the
> "acadaemic world". So even the (then limited) Internet was not available.
> O'Reilly didn't exits and there were no readily available books on Unix.
> 
> So, what did I have?  "man" and that was it.  I would recommend to anyone
> on first encountering Unix to (1) Read, learn and understand everything on
> the "man sh" or "man ksh" pages.  (2) Read every other man page on the
> system.  You won't understand every thing on every page, but you will start
> to see paterns involved, and you will learn much and remember where to find
> things. (3) Make a listing of every file on the system (yes, every one!)
> and find out why they are there and what they do.  Cross each one off the
> list as you find out.  But that is too much like work, isn't it?  (Learning
> usually is).

I do have a few 'unix' books, but that doesn't mean I am going to
know
what every differant prompt looks like in every version of every
shell.

> As for not having patience and lashing out in a childish manner.  My take
> on it is this.  There is no reason to have patience with those who ask
> questions and do not listen to the answers (or think about them).  To want
> things handed to you on a "silver platter" is childish, to protest when
> silliness is pointed out is childish.  If you think I "lashed out" you must
> have had a very "gentle" life.
> 
> If you consider I am ill-mannered, I like you consider what sort of manners
> are involved, when somebody (not me) gave you a good answer to your
> question and you effectively "ignored" it.  Whyfore then, should I be
> "gentle"?

Ah, but I didn't ignore it, I tried and tried again, and got it
right, and sent
that person an email regarding this. Just because you didn't see
it doesn't
mean I ignored it.

> Geoff
> --
> count@shalimar.net.au
> Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione
> 
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message

So, whether or not you accept my reasons or apology is neither
here nor there,
I am learning and make mistakes, I am also not afraid to admit it
when I do.
That, too, is part of the learning process.
Good Day,
-- 
Chip W.	
www.wiegand.org
Alternative Operating Systems


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