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Date:      Sun, 28 Jan 1996 14:21:47 -0500 (EST)
From:      John Brann <jbrann@panix.com>
To:        hackers@freefall.freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: Good news -- pipe stuff
Message-ID:  <199601281923.OAA07191@jbrann>
In-Reply-To: <199601281249.EAA28294@freefall.freebsd.org> from "owner-hackers-digest@freefall.freebsd.org" at Jan 28, 96 04:49:34 am

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owner-hackers-digest@freefall.freebsd.org wrote...
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@time.cdrom.com>
> Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 01:21:01 -0800
> Subject: Re: Good news -- pipe stuff 
> 
> > I read the Lai/Baker paper: in "Figure 1", FreeBSD kicks some serious
> > butt on context switches -- it appears to be both flat and linear past
> > 200 processes (the limit of the graph in the figure).
> 
> Actually, at a later talk it came out that Linux had substantially
> improved this in the current release.  However, both this talk and
> Larry McVoy's talk that followed it were wastes of paper and time for
> all concerned.
> 
[remainder of Jordan's analysis removed]

Before I get into the rest of this I'm going to set myself up as flame-bait.

1.	I'm not a contributor to FreeBSD.  I've been running it since
	last March, but I haven't contributed any software / hardware.  I
	have been responsible for my share of dumbass questions.

2.	As you can see from the above I don't subscribe to 'hackers' 
	except as a skimmer of the digest.

OK, that's done with.

I downloaded and read the Lai/Baker paper.  I agree that it was clearly 
shallow, but I don't think I've ever seen any worthwhile cross-OS or
cross-machine performance comparisons.  Anything beyond the grossest
conclusions (Solaris seems a bit slow) are hard to be convincing about.

What I read into the paper was;

1.	Linux seems very fast as a standalone system.  Much (more) kudos
	to Linus and his followers.

2.	FreeBSD is also very fast, with some suggestion that there might
	be some things in the filesystem that would benefit from looking
	at.

3.	Solaris bites.  (This is influenced by personal prejudice, I 
	run it at work).

Something about this clearly got under Jordan's skin, and for the first
time (and I do always try to read as much of his postings / e-mails as 
I can) I detected real irritation in his analysis.  I'm disappointed in
this, it jarrs with all those "do not get into that Linux vs. FreeBSD
argument" articles of his.

For what it's worth, here are my conclusions after almost a year following
FreeBSD's fortunes.

1.	FreeBSD is _behind_ Linux in support for many useful features - 
	devices, threads, ELF and, no doubt, other things.

2.	FreeBSD is _ahead_ of Linux in focus.  For good or ill (and I 
	think it's good) FreeBSD has a core team which, collectively,
	with leadership provided by the normally saintly Jordan,
	guides the system forward in a coherent fashion.  I don't watch
	Linux closely, but the entry of commercialization will probably
	fragment the it even further than it has already gone.

It's common to read in our mailing lists of people converting from Linux to
FreeBSD.  I don't know if the reverse can be read in the Linux groups and
lists, but in any case, FreeBSD must be doing _something_ right.  I
believe that the very coherence and sense of common purpose which I see
in the software and, almost without exception, in the mailing lists, 
allied to the fact that the system works so well and the ported / packaged
applications are so good and extensive, are what's right.

In the end I believe that people who choose operating systems for themselves,
choose from a combination of logic, prejudice and serendipity and that 
logic is not often the prime consideration.  In my own case I had never
heard of FreeBSD until a week before my new home PC arrived.  I had 
intended to run Linux on it, but I read an 'Ask Mr. Protocol' column in
'Sun Expert' magazine which talked about various free Unixes, and I
was hooked on the FreeBSD story.  After almost a year I wouldn't change
from FreeBSD if you paid me - so I guess I'm as bad as Lai and Baker.

What's my point?  The virtues of FreeBSD are as much in the focus of the
project and the community of its users as in the excellence of the 
software.  Jordan's 'tantrum' (his word) goes against that focus and
spirit of community (IMHO).

I'd call this my ten-cents' worth, but I seem to have spent a dollar's 
worth of bandwidth.

John.
--
Difficult conversations with great figures of history:
3. Winston Churchill:
	"Excuse me, this is the no-smoking section."



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