From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Thu Apr 9 21:59:18 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A41562A8C1F for ; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 21:59:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from james.wright@jigsawdezign.com) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.130]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48yw5x33Lgz4LsM; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 21:59:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from james.wright@jigsawdezign.com) Received: from [192.168.0.11] ([82.18.193.38]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue011 [212.227.15.163]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MuDHR-1j1Pxf0dTh-00uYmf; Thu, 09 Apr 2020 23:59:14 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.5\)) Subject: Re: Ars Technica article on FreeBSD new user experience From: James Wright In-Reply-To: <8a9e684c-4b6d-884d-4db6-fc7b436117e0@daemonic.se> Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2020 22:59:12 +0100 Cc: Ed Maste , Kyle Evans , FreeBSD Hackers Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <494F4B96-189F-49F5-99EF-C649FCB13ACE@jigsawdezign.com> References: <8a9e684c-4b6d-884d-4db6-fc7b436117e0@daemonic.se> To: Niclas Zeising X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.5) X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:uIzDwzPFne1brfHn/DYIVyH8xmnNf1T9uOM+s8wNyjIC+fxeK11 TW+wgZI27WClUlcHI/sZxV75bYMP5zhF9e8x0Ly9MszGtWQuMmV/cgNwtO7G9KLdYa2pITd SNbgrdgd4OEo7nhekINzIQSqXbAy+A3B/TJebkSHexTu0Lxa/6m3gm90bwN1B/g/BOm/9tw 7JSbKYlHWTuqcCHtPL3cA== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:qQX/YQV0tT0=:C+bIK2Lwo1UaRrCh/QjXtV PPVKAFVdkh8/f5DxWVR9/1tBVAI0ANrIRf3FCBABquXDiB7r6g+kVC+B2etUBkvH33kSCFWLR 5R3zLa/aAgms87KX7XXYlaz9aCFcIPICy1u7X0+LZTr0IfcB+o1udcRir56cP/Dz4S2ko024y YsW9KNrQezZHXAQiH4GEuJj/hYUguGQcTBd8j6+FYZu6+7WI26faKvrrC6CuTf/w+q+Skzz7S cl3x7aqEMxpE5S+dMDn/FMI/CLkkrd4OTti7oPBtX70FvNDhfdTib+umF6xFJj6uGi4OBjzwV VI7pcdnsvitm5u31RSC9OT/kxLe37OTbkPoXZJJUPGd8jU1bgi7/agEd3Qw2iam1JILXN6iWg IA7SrBgHJLzNOv4B35dpC33W7lP+cBJwux0tv/Cnt5kg3CE0ctwxM/1vNF3eo0Vh9c2mxdLB6 OZ+EzWqvSRZ98HRGUJZKoZYmmDRqlMydP1MIZv4QwqvdDYQs0ZXt4ArxlO5kmEJOfkC1QQg/m ckSQymt7pTn7VQmGoashUJ9k2DyUjdo2i3/aCYEqSaOtO+Ww8/wtoqPpZ+qpwTPZIDyWirygq WXKhddaYMVp0cvmFYkd7wB7U/hvtYqH0vPkHwV5fNSlV4X8p5ZMwvowo7ecGsuVAlofsXldGI fJXMsX3xPP7uSwEKeWE9wJoxxi5Xt83TbejQeMTSHeo8hLtk1hFplL/Vi0Hyx4KiFJJ7JudRC ODoIv2V/Tc2g+W3J4OItGtxIZVQ0n0zVMqJeyztwEEgvZFy4UPjt4TEJVUoMJWz9I90ChvDUR RXFS2t69jfJ2P6JgZiB0w6Gdzk5acy/ac4PmekGSbz+0qUZtGvm/VBB29x0zpeFIc3QCzJR X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 48yw5x33Lgz4LsM X-Spamd-Bar: +++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of james.wright@jigsawdezign.com has no SPF policy when checking 212.227.126.130) smtp.mailfrom=james.wright@jigsawdezign.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [3.33 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; IP_SCORE(0.51)[ip: (1.63), ipnet: 212.227.0.0/16(-1.16), asn: 8560(2.11), country: DE(-0.02)]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[freebsd]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[jigsawdezign.com]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.46)[0.463,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.95)[0.953,0]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[130.126.227.212.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2020 21:59:18 -0000 > To be honest, what's the difference from how yum or apt does it? > At least yum search returns everything that matches, including matches = in package descriptions and so on. I haven't used apt systems in a = while, but I recall they being similar. This sounds to me just like = someone who wants to find something to complain about. Out of the package managers I have to use frequently (apt, yum, and = pkg), I find `pkg search` usually returns what I'm looking for with the = least amount of noise. However, as previously suggested, moving the package version into a 2nd = column could help, to make it clearer that you don't need to `pkg = install` the package+version string in it's entirety.