Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2024 16:31:51 +0100 From: Mario Marietto <marietto2008@gmail.com> To: Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> Cc: Ganbold Tsagaankhuu <ganbold@gmail.com>, Mark Millard <marklmi@yahoo.com>, freebsd-arm <freebsd-arm@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Radxa Zero and FreeBSD : happy marriage ? Message-ID: <CA%2B1FSij7pRd9dUUffELuL%2BvcAMJWDoQWDjgpze81GO3BWaws2A@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <CANCZdfq%2BCBepBJTdUf5bn6aAO4HYjrxtMETqORE-3F3kbHvbyQ@mail.gmail.com> References: <CA%2B1FSigKVnfUm47GGVmxLNKcsSUdofTfdW-7%2B41E5ta4syCDCQ@mail.gmail.com> <9211C7C9-FB09-4EB0-A315-BB86865EE9BC@yahoo.com> <CA%2B1FSihbt7aOtq-hKAMg=uuGMnr6bquvv5dS1YN2foKSb4=Wiw@mail.gmail.com> <CAGtf9xNKiWRr64JiodccKntqGkS16Yru-_wYsZ1iSEDs4uYM9A@mail.gmail.com> <CANCZdfq%2BCBepBJTdUf5bn6aAO4HYjrxtMETqORE-3F3kbHvbyQ@mail.gmail.com>
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--000000000000ac388b0627be7092 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ok. So the radxa is a soc that can't be used. At the moment I'm not sure what soc is good for this project. The only soc that seems to be usable is the raspberry pi zero 2W. But it has only 500MB of memory so it can run X and only a few apps. Not a good SOC for creating a mobile phone. For sure there are a lot of socs in the market,but they aren't slim. You know,a mobile phone should have a maximum of 1.5 cm of thickness or it does not resemble a mobile device and it is not appetible for the eyes. I'm working on this project with another person. We have to choose carefully the hardware components because FreeBSD has some limitations. There aren't drivers for the display (they are developed for Linux,mostly) and the problem of the - power consumption. FBSD's kernel itself consumes more than Linux kernel even after tuning. It is because the FBSD team did not ever consider running embedded battery powered devices. They cared about not overheating the CPU, but not to save power. One of the keys (besides the kernel codebase) - is knowing from documentation how to manage internal SoC's clocks and peripherals (turn them on and off, tuning clocks frequency, etc.). So, that is why we insisted that the SoC has to be properly documented to withstand the goals of the project. Otherwise, we will run out of even powerful batteries within a couple hours. The most hungry consumer is the screen. So it is mandatory to have an ability to turn it off completely, but still run the kernel in power-save mode. So,we think that we can use,at least to start, the raspberry pi zero 2W that has the advantage of being very widely known and supported by the community. It can run kernel + X + some apps. We target 512Mb boards as well at the time until it is not tough to fit everything we need. Due to the lack of drivers for the display,we are forced to use USB/HDMI screens that are driver-less. We know that we can buy them from Elecrow,for example. This could be the only solution. The model that we are looking for should not use a driver board and no drivers. Maybe one HDMI display is overkill for our phone. But for sure it should be powered by attaching it to the USB port of the SOC. Size should be between 4 and 5 inches. On Mon, Nov 25, 2024 at 4:12=E2=80=AFPM Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote: > I was gifted a Radxa many years ago... And it looked like a lot of work > to bring things up on it, not least because the boot loader was weird to > even get started with uboot, and the uboot you needed was a fork of an > ancient branch of upstream uboot. Tha AmLogic datasheets at the time were > unobtanium, but have since become findable (I'm told by someone I chatted > about the Radxa at I think BSDcan over beers before covid). I gave up due > to the large amount of work it would have been to translate everything fr= om > just the Linux sources. > > Warner > > On Mon, Nov 25, 2024 at 8:03=E2=80=AFAM Ganbold Tsagaankhuu <ganbold@gmai= l.com> > wrote: > >> Amlogic is not supported in FreeBSD at all and nobody is working on this >> SoC, so if I were you I wouldn't buy it. >> >> On Mon, Nov 25, 2024, 10:49=E2=80=AFPM Mario Marietto <marietto2008@gmai= l.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Thanks. I see more development with this model : >>> >>> http://radxa.com/products/zeros/zero3e/#techspec >>> >>> according to this thread : >>> >>> https://forum.radxa.com/t/zero-3e-freebsd/20661 >>> >>> Unfortunately this soc is not slender as the previous one. And anyway,a >>> lot of functions don't work on FreeBSD. >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Nov 25, 2024 at 3:32=E2=80=AFPM Mark Millard <marklmi@yahoo.com= > wrote: >>> >>>> On Nov 25, 2024, at 03:02, Mario Marietto <marietto2008@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> > I'm planning to buy this soc : >>>> > Radxa Zero >>>> > =E2=80=A2 Specifications: >>>> > =E2=80=A2 CPU: Amlogic S905Y2 quad-core Cortex-A53 >>>> > =E2=80=A2 RAM: Up to 4GB LPDDR4 (4GB option available) >>>> > =E2=80=A2 Ports: >>>> > =E2=80=A2 Mini HDMI >>>> > =E2=80=A2 Micro USB OTG >>>> > =E2=80=A2 Micro USB power >>>> > =E2=80=A2 Wireless: Wi-Fi 802.11 b/g/n/ac, Bluetooth 5.0 >>>> > >>>> > because I'm trying to assemble a mobile phone powered by FreeBSD. >>>> This soc seems to be the only option available given its performances = and >>>> slenderness. >>>> > But what I want to know is how compatible it is with FreeBSD. Are >>>> there some huge unfixed bugs ? Problems with HDMI or whatever ? thanks= . >>>> >>>> It does not appear to have a FreeBSD U-Boot port, making it >>>> seem unlikely that the kernel work has been done to support >>>> the soc. >>>> >>>> For reference: >>>> >>>> # ls -dC1 /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-*/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-a13-olinuxino/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-a64-olinuxino/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-bananapi/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-bananapim2/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-beaglebone/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-bhyve-arm64/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-bhyve-riscv/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-chip/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-clearfog/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-cubieboard/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-cubieboard2/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-cubox-hummingboard/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-firefly-rk3399/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-imx-serial-loader/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-master/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-nanopi-a64/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-nanopi-m1plus/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-nanopi-neo-air/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-nanopi-neo/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-nanopi-neo2/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-nanopi-r2s/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-nanopi-r4s/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-nanopi-r5s/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-olimex-a20-som-evb/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-olinuxino-lime/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-olinuxino-lime2-emmc/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-olinuxino-lime2/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-orangepi-one/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-orangepi-pc-plus/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-orangepi-pc/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-orangepi-pc2/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-orangepi-plus-2e/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-orangepi-r1/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-orangepi-zero-plus/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-orangepi-zero/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-pandaboard/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-pcduino3/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-pine-h64/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-pine64-lts/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-pine64/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-pinebook/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-pinebookpro/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-qemu-arm/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-qemu-arm64/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-qemu-riscv64/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-quartz64-a/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-quartz64-b/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-riotboard/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-rock-pi-4/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-rock64/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-rockpro64/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-rpi-0-w/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-rpi-arm64/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-rpi/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-rpi2/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-rpi3-32/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-rpi3/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-rpi4/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-sifive-fu540/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-sifive-fu740/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-sinovoip-bpi-m3/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-sopine-spi/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-sopine/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-starfive-visionfive2/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-tools/ >>>> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-wandboard/ >>>> >>>> >>>> =3D=3D=3D >>>> Mark Millard >>>> marklmi at yahoo.com >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Mario. >>> >> --=20 Mario. --000000000000ac388b0627be7092 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Ok. So the radxa is a soc that can't be used. At = the moment I'm not sure what soc is good for this project. The only soc= that seems to be usable is the raspberry pi zero 2W. But it has only 500MB= of memory so it can run X and only a few apps. Not a good SOC for creating= a mobile phone. For sure there are a lot of socs in the market,but they ar= en't slim. You know,a mobile phone should have a maximum of 1.5 cm of t= hickness or it does not resemble a mobile device and it is not appetible fo= r the eyes. <br></div><div><br></div><div><div> I'm working on this pro= ject with another person. We have to choose carefully=20 the hardware components because FreeBSD has some limitations. There=20 aren't drivers for the display (they are developed for Linux,mostly) an= d the problem of the - power consumption. FBSD's kernel=20 itself consumes more than Linux kernel even after tuning. It is because=20 the FBSD team did not ever consider running embedded battery powered=20 devices. They cared about not overheating the CPU, but not to save=20 power. One of the keys (besides=20 the=20 kernel codebase) - is knowing from documentation how to manage internal=20 SoC's clocks and peripherals (turn them on and off, tuning clocks=20 frequency, etc.). So, that is why we insisted that the SoC has to be=20 properly documented to withstand the goals of the project. Otherwise,=20 we will run out of even powerful batteries within a couple hours. The most = hungry consumer is the screen. So it is mandatory to=20 have=20 an ability to turn it off completely, but still run the kernel in=20 power-save mode.</div><div><br></div><div>So,we think that we can use,at least to start, the raspberry pi zero 2W that has the advantage of=20 being very widely known and supported by the community. It can run=20 kernel + X + some apps. We target 512Mb boards as well at the time until it is not tough to fit=20 everything we need. <br></div><div><br></div><div>Due to the lack of=20 drivers for the display,we are forced to use USB/HDMI screens that are=20 driver-less. We know that we can buy them from Elecrow,for example. This co= uld be=20 the only solution. The model that we are looking for should not use a drive= r board and no drivers. Maybe one HDMI display is overkill for our phone. But for=20 sure it should be powered by attaching it to the USB port of the SOC.=20 Size should be between 4 and 5 inches.</div></div></div><br><div class=3D"g= mail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Nov 25, 2024 at 4= :12=E2=80=AFPM Warner Losh <<a href=3D"mailto:imp@bsdimp.com" target=3D"= _blank">imp@bsdimp.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_q= uote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,2= 04);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">I was gifted=C2=A0a Radxa many years= ago...=C2=A0 And it looked like a lot of work to bring things up on it, no= t least because the boot loader was weird to even get started with uboot, a= nd the uboot you needed was a fork of an ancient branch of upstream uboot. = Tha AmLogic datasheets at the time were unobtanium, but have since become f= indable (I'm told by someone I chatted about the Radxa=C2=A0at I think = BSDcan over beers before covid). I gave up due to the large=C2=A0amount of = work it would have been to translate everything from just the Linux sources= .<div><br></div><div>Warner</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div = dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Nov 25, 2024 at 8:03=E2=80=AFAM Ga= nbold Tsagaankhuu <<a href=3D"mailto:ganbold@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank= ">ganbold@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quot= e" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)= ;padding-left:1ex"><p dir=3D"ltr">Amlogic is not supported in FreeBSD at al= l and nobody is working on this SoC, so if I were you I wouldn't buy it= .</p> <br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon= , Nov 25, 2024, 10:49=E2=80=AFPM Mario Marietto <<a href=3D"mailto:marie= tto2008@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">marietto2008@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<= br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8e= x;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"= ><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Thanks. I see more development with this model :<br>= </div><div><br></div><div><a href=3D"http://radxa.com/products/zeros/zero3e= /#techspec" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://radxa.com/products/= zeros/zero3e/#techspec</a></div><div><br></div><div>according to this threa= d :</div><div><br></div><div><a href=3D"https://forum.radxa.com/t/zero-3e-f= reebsd/20661" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://forum.radxa.com/= t/zero-3e-freebsd/20661</a></div><div><br></div><div>Unfortunately this soc= is not slender as the previous one. And anyway,a lot of functions don'= t work on FreeBSD. <br></div><div><br></div></div></div><br><div class=3D"g= mail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Nov 25, 2024 at 3= :32=E2=80=AFPM Mark Millard <<a href=3D"mailto:marklmi@yahoo.com" rel=3D= "noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">marklmi@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><b= lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-le= ft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On Nov 25, 2024, at 03:02, = Mario Marietto <<a href=3D"mailto:marietto2008@gmail.com" rel=3D"norefer= rer" target=3D"_blank">marietto2008@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br> <br> > I'm planning to buy this soc :<br> > Radxa Zero<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Specifications:<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 CPU: Amlogic S905Y2 quad-co= re Cortex-A53<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 RAM: Up to 4GB LPDDR4 (4GB = option available)<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Ports:<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Mini HDMI<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Micro USB OTG= <br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Micro USB pow= er<br> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=A2 Wireless: Wi-Fi 802.11 b/g/= n/ac, Bluetooth 5.0<br> > <br> > because I'm trying to assemble a mobile phone powered by FreeBSD. = This soc seems to be the only option available given its performances and s= lenderness. <br> > But what I want to know is how compatible it is with FreeBSD. Are ther= e some huge unfixed bugs ? Problems with HDMI or whatever ? thanks.<br> <br> It does not appear to have a FreeBSD U-Boot port, making it<br> seem unlikely that the kernel work has been done to support<br> the soc.<br> <br> For reference:<br> <br> # ls -dC1 /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-*/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-a13-olinuxino/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-a64-olinuxino/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-bananapi/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-bananapim2/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-beaglebone/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-bhyve-arm64/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-bhyve-riscv/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-chip/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-clearfog/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-cubieboard/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-cubieboard2/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-cubox-hummingboard/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-firefly-rk3399/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-imx-serial-loader/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-master/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-nanopi-a64/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-nanopi-m1plus/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-nanopi-neo-air/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-nanopi-neo/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-nanopi-neo2/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-nanopi-r2s/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-nanopi-r4s/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-nanopi-r5s/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-olimex-a20-som-evb/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-olinuxino-lime/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-olinuxino-lime2-emmc/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-olinuxino-lime2/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-orangepi-one/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-orangepi-pc-plus/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-orangepi-pc/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-orangepi-pc2/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-orangepi-plus-2e/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-orangepi-r1/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-orangepi-zero-plus/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-orangepi-zero/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-pandaboard/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-pcduino3/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-pine-h64/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-pine64-lts/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-pine64/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-pinebook/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-pinebookpro/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-qemu-arm/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-qemu-arm64/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-qemu-riscv64/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-quartz64-a/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-quartz64-b/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-riotboard/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-rock-pi-4/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-rock64/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-rockpro64/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-rpi-0-w/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-rpi-arm64/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-rpi/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-rpi2/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-rpi3-32/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-rpi3/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-rpi4/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-sifive-fu540/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-sifive-fu740/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-sinovoip-bpi-m3/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-sopine-spi/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-sopine/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-starfive-visionfive2/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-tools/<br> /usr/ports/sysutils/u-boot-wandboard/<br> <br> <br> =3D=3D=3D<br> Mark Millard<br> marklmi at <a href=3D"http://yahoo.com" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" targe= t=3D"_blank">yahoo.com</a><br> <br> </blockquote></div><div><br clear=3D"all"></div><br><span class=3D"gmail_si= gnature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature">Ma= rio.<br></div> </blockquote></div> </blockquote></div> </blockquote></div><div><br clear=3D"all"></div><br><span class=3D"gmail_si= gnature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature">Ma= rio.<br></div> --000000000000ac388b0627be7092--
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