From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Tue Dec 3 16:56:27 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4B211B5916; Tue, 3 Dec 2019 16:56:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pete@nomadlogic.org) Received: from mail.nomadlogic.org (mail.nomadlogic.org [174.136.98.114]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mail.nomadlogic.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47S7RZ2fYGz4d6P; Tue, 3 Dec 2019 16:56:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pete@nomadlogic.org) Received: from [192.168.1.206] (cpe-23-243-162-239.socal.res.rr.com [23.243.162.239]) by mail.nomadlogic.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id 8a7255bf (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO); Tue, 3 Dec 2019 16:56:18 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: arm64 as Tier 1 for FreeBSD 13 To: greg@unrelenting.technology, Ed Maste , freebsd-arch , freebsd-arm References: <6d9f394c670a8426c61a3d075ffaf3e9@unrelenting.technology> From: Pete Wright Message-ID: User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <6d9f394c670a8426c61a3d075ffaf3e9@unrelenting.technology> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 47S7RZ2fYGz4d6P X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of pete@nomadlogic.org designates 174.136.98.114 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=pete@nomadlogic.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.97 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[239.162.243.23.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.10]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[nomadlogic.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; IP_SCORE(-2.67)[ip: (-9.28), ipnet: 174.136.96.0/20(-3.73), asn: 25795(-0.30), country: US(-0.05)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:25795, ipnet:174.136.96.0/20, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 29 Jan 2020 20:46:45 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2019 16:56:27 -0000 X-Original-Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2019 08:56:13 -0800 X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2019 16:56:27 -0000 On 12/3/19 7:12 AM, greg@unrelenting.technology wrote: > December 3, 2019 1:57 PM, "Ed Maste" wrote: > >>> Developers should be able to build packages on commonly available, >>> non-embedded Tier 1 systems. This can mean either native builds if >>> non-embedded systems are commonly available for the platform in question, >>> or it can mean cross-builds hosted on some other Tier 1 architecture. >> This is somewhat of a challenge today - there aren't many arm64 >> platforms readily available in a configuration most suited to >> developer use, such as a 4- or 8-core system with 16GB of RAM and >> SATA- or NVMe-connected storage. Smaller systems (e.g. Pine64) are >> readily available but not quite capable enough; larger systems (e.g. >> Marvell ThunderX and Ampere eMAG) are out of reach for typical >> developer use. User-mode QEMU cross-builds are a possibility, but this >> item is one that should resolve over time as new platforms become >> available. > The Marvell/SolidRun MACCHIATObin is an affordable 4-core (Cortex A72) > with DDR4 (takes one full size DIMM), SATA, USB 3.0 and PCIe. > And most importantly, excellent firmware support (upstream EDK2+TrustedFirmware). > The PCIe is rather quirky (I really should make a proper blog post already) > but I have it working with a Radeon RX 480. > It can be a decent developer desktop if you're fine with > "2013 era ultrabook" levels of performance :D > > Though honestly if we're talking just about build machines, the RPi4 is also > a 4xA72.. Of course the elephant in the room is the RAM :( > But at least it has USB 3.0 for I/O, and we won't actually need to support PCIe: > https://github.com/pftf/edk2-platforms/commit/f6469886e216390f460494b81a4a4bf78cb66ba8 > > Also, nothing in "non-embedded systems" says "hardware you physically own", right? > An EC2 a1.4xlarge (spot) instance is an excellent way to build big software. interesting timing in regards to using AWS for builds: https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/coming-soon-graviton2-powered-general-purpose-compute-optimized-memory-optimized-ec2-instances/ if these perf numbers are real, this is something i would be interested in for general purpose systems i deploy on AWS. -p -- Pete Wright pete@nomadlogic.org @nomadlogicLA